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Resignation Letter

bariweiss.com

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Re: Resignation Letter

#401

Post by mancerayder »

cs702 wrote: post #40

I hesitated before upvoting the OP, and even considered flagging it, given its controversial author (with whom I disagree) and its potential to fuel ideologically driven, opinionated arguments (in which no one wins and everyone loses). However, I decided to upvote the OP because I feel it is, in the end, about a topic that is of utmost interest of -- and widely considered important by -- most people on HN: free speec…

> I hesitated before upvoting the OP, and even considered flagging it, given its controversial author (with whom I disagree) and its potential to fuel ideologically driven, opinionated arguments (in which no one wins and everyone loses). However, I decided to upvote the OP because I feel it is, in the end, about a topic that is of utmost interest of -- and widely considered important by -- most people on HN: free speech.

There's another reason: because it directly impacts technology and the companies that many of us work with. This is a Silicon Valley news blog, at the end of the day, and it's unavoidable how Twitter, Facebook, Google and such have entered the debate. They're inextricable from the debate.

This controversy around cancel culture really could not TRULY exist without the ease with which you can search a history, stick a video on someone with a phone, or to expand on this a bit, use algorithms to target people with headlines and track how viral a headline got.

Re: Resignation Letter

#402

Post by AzzieElbab »

joshuamorton wrote: post #368
AzzieElbab wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx wasn't around to write history books about subjects like say Zionism

These are words, but I can't perceive any larger meaning from them. Locke, Hobbes, and Kant also weren't alive to write such books, yet they apparently are philosophers? I'd appreciate if if you took the time to put together more than a single sentence.

No. I said more than the topic of critical theory deserves. Let's talk about flat earth next

Re: Resignation Letter

#403

Post by throwaway894345 »

PhineasRex wrote: post #171
throwaway894345 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why she's such a polarizing figure. In particular, the criticisms I've heard from her and other free-speech advocates amount to "anyone who supports free speech but also exercises their own free speech rights to criticize others is a hypocrite". I understand that it's confusing to distinguish between "criticism" and "suppression of speech" (e.g., campaigning to get someone fired from their job), bu…

Several NYT employees have come out with stories of Bari trying to get them fired for disagreeing with her and she has publicly joined or led campaigns to get people fired from other organizations. Here's a good overview of her involvement in censorship campaigns: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

I've skimmed the article and the article linked to in the tweet that was linked to in the story, but while both are clearly heavily spun I don't see anything damning that would indicate that Bari tried to get anyone fired.

Further, as far as I can tell, this all centers around things she did in college and I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't be faulted for their college antics. Ibram X. Kendi wrote that white people were literally aliens and Nikole Hannah-Jones wrote that "the white race ... is the biggest murderer, rapist, pillager, and thief of the modern world" and "the descendants of these savage people ... continue to be bloodsuckers in our communities". The had abhorrent views, and now they're gainfully propagating moderately improved views on an international stage. Perhaps she (like many on this forum and elsewhere in the debate) was still trying to understand the difference between "cancellation" and "criticism"?

In any case, to the extent that she participated in any cancellation, she was wrong to do so.

Re: Resignation Letter

#404

Post by mancerayder »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #305
jimbokun wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are getting low level employees fired from their jobs, though. They have a lot of power in educational institutes, media organizations and HR departments.

> They are getting low level employees fired from their jobs This is an interesting intersection. It either implies that all employers are left-aligned (not true) and therefore willing to fire employees that hold right-leaning opinions, OR that low level employees are so expendable that it literally any reason can get them fired if enough people complain.

I think HR departments just want to offload risk and they'll take advantage of loose labor laws to offload an employee who got mobbed online.

I don't ascribe a right or left bias to them. It's the mob that has the bias (perhaps because of age or ideology or certainty or something else) and the mob uses the technology and then the HR department responds by firing the employee.

Re: Resignation Letter

#405

Post by [deleted] »

gfodor wrote: post #276
Barrin92 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this particular case the author argues from her particular experience in her workplace without providing any evidence, so I think it's pretty relevant to take such things into account because she might be exaggerating. I'm not exactly inclined to take someone's purely personal criticisms at face value if they have engaged in the same behaviour. For all we know she might be leaving on bad terms and is taking it out…

If you read my comment and interpreted it to mean “everything should be taken at face value” that is worth reflecting on.

[deleted]

Re: Resignation Letter

#406

Post by mancerayder »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #162
mellosouls wrote: post #28

There seems to be more and more public acknowledgement (and in fora like this one) of the myriad leftist 1984-style attacks we are currently witnessing - every bit as bad as the McCarthy era led by the right. As appalling as the behaviour of these people is, that growing awareness can only be a good thing.

Your coworkers and people on Twitter making fun of you isn't comparable to McCarthyism.

McCarthyism had an employability element.

It's absolutely comparable!

Re: Resignation Letter

#407

Post by sillypuddy »

jrumbut wrote: post #153
mikece wrote: post #3

"Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at [the New York Times]: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else." This is a very key point, and what are the consequences of "informing everyone of a truth" that doesn't accurately reflect -- of even contradicts! -- reality? Harm to the reput…

They have 1,600 journalists last year that were sent to 150 countries [1]. What other organization is doing anything like that effort to gather facts around the world? Who is doing more collective discovery (and making it accessible to the public at a price an average person can afford)? I can only think of a handful of organizations that are serious candidates (Reuters? The BBC? Wikipedia?). Weird puff pieces, drama…

Bloomberg had 2,300 editors and reporters in 72 countries in 2010. The Wall Street Journal had 2,000 journalists in 85 news bureaus across 51 countries in 2012.

Re: Resignation Letter

#408

Post by infamouscow »

some-guy wrote: post #260
quotemstr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being barred from employment in your industry due to your non-work-related political opinion and affiliations is literally McCarthyism though.

I was interviewing a candidate last year for a software engineering position. Interview was fine and he was capable. I decided to find him on Twitter. He said immigration was ruining the country, and that there are too many Indians / Chinese in the Bay Area. About half of my organization either have an H1B visa or a green card. Am I a McCarthyist for rejecting him outright without hesitation?

Progress happens when people go outside of their comfort zone to explore new thoughts, but it sounds like you'd prefer to write-off the candidate instead of taking the opportunity to change their mind.

Re: Resignation Letter

#409

Post by mancerayder »

alecb wrote: post #4

There's several layers of irony here, chief of which Bari Weiss headed a very vocal campaign to fire anyone at Colombia who didn't exist on the far-right on Israel/Palestine - and of course, falsely painted several professors as racist and anti-Semitic: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...

This happened 15 years ago when she was a student.

And how does this contradict the letter?

Re: Resignation Letter

#410

Post by slg »

manfredo wrote: post #370
slg wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling your climate change denying coworker a backwards dumb-ass is not illegal. You can of course be fired for that inappropriate behavior, but it isn't illegal. Weiss specifically called out this behavior as unlawful discrimination. Also it is worth pointing out that Weiss's job was to voice opinions. It is entirely different for someone in that role to face backlash for their bad opinions than it is for someone i…

> Calling your climate change denying coworker a backwards dumb-ass is not illegal. You can of course be fired for that inappropriate behavior, but it isn't illegal. A correct statement, but one that skirts around the issue at hand: in this situation the people berating their evangelical coworker are creating a hostile workplace environment and the company is obligated to take actions to remidiate this situation. If…

A hostile work environment requires discrimination. She is not being discriminated against. Having smart and well supported opinions is part of the requirements of her job. Therefore her opinions are subject to extra scrutiny compared to the opinions of someone who is asked to do an entirely different job.
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