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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#171

Post by bearjaws »

voqv wrote: post #34
Barrin92 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do regulators have an idea of what test a car needs to pass to be able to claim certain things? It there were levels of tests and passing each gave you better rating, that might give everyone an idea of there the system is. The 'five levels' of autonomy are fairly well established by now. Full autonomy generally is defined as driving capability that does not involve human attention, that is to say it is what the nam…

Likely can't ship. The Vienna Convention on Road Traffic prohibits fully driverless cars [1], I assume the US has something similar. Cruise is still waiting for their waiver to have cars without a steering wheel and that's not even for consumers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Traf...

Here in the states, its at the state level what is allowed.

We have autonomous vehicle testing in pretty much any state that allows it.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#172

Post by chki »

filoleg wrote: post #145
chki wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure the fact that BMW/Daimler/VW have completely botched their EV/Autonomous vehicle strategy and the automotive industry is Germany's cash cow has nothing at all to do with the court's decision. What are you implying? That the German Court felt pressured by the Auto Lobby to take this decision? That the judges were biased? Bribed? Vague statements like this are very unhelpful, because you can't argue against…

> That the German Court felt pressured by the Auto Lobby to take this decision? Probably that + the constituents. When a very large chunk of your constituents are employed by local car manufacturing companies, letting those companies fail and lose to a foreign competitor not only loses money for those companies, it also puts a threat of unemployment on your voting population. Lobbying from local car companies + your…

But in Germany courts have basically no relationship to "their constituents" because judges aren't elected but appointed (lifetime appointment). Of course you might argue that promotion chances are higher if your decisions are "popular", however such a small decision as in the current case which hase basically not had any media attention in Germany will most likely not have any impact on the deciding judges career.

Edit: after reviewing it, there hase been some media attention on this case in Germany as well.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#173

Post by binrec »

typon wrote: post #97
nemothekid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is one part car company, one part battery company, and 5 parts marketing hype. The only reason people are seriously contemplating buying full electric cars today instead of the bullshit BMW produced is because Iron Man convinced enough people that electric cars will simultaneously fly to mars and cure world hunger. The stock reflects this. In other words, there is no Tesla without Elon's meme machine. The grave…

Are you saying people see Musk as a necessary "evil" to fight off a bigger evil (in the form of oil companies) and so they forgive his misgivings in a sort of utilitarian calculus?

Musk is a great hype man in an industry where hype is the difference between success and failure. If he'd started out in a different field, he could've been the next Tom Ford or Zaha Hadid. That's not necessarily a statement about the quality of his or his companies' work - Zaha Hadid does not make nice buildings, and I wouldn't buy a Tesla - but it's difficult to say whether Tesla would've succeeded if not for Musk's hype... and the point of great hype men is that people buy into the hype.

On balance, having a hype man for [PayPal Mafia voice] innovation in the world of atoms seems like a good thing. Musk may not be the best person for the role, but you probably have to be a little crazy to want to be a celebrity in the first place.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#174

Post by bdcravens »

gardaani wrote: post #53
notRobot wrote: post #4

> The Munich court agreed with the industry body’s assessment and banned Tesla Germany from including “full potential for autonomous driving” and “Autopilot inclusive” in its German advertising materials. Fully autonomous driving won't be here for _at least_ half a decade so this judgement makes complete sense. Tesla was engaged in flase advertising.

Only five days ago Elon Musk claimed that "we will have the basic functionality for level five autonomy complete this year." (yeah..!) https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53349313

Even at level 5 (full autonomy with no input needed), when it fails, they'll still blame the driver.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#175

Post by bdcravens »

dlivingston wrote: post #141

While the average non-Tesla owner might be confused on phrases like “autopilot”, any Tesla owner is very aware of its capabilities and shortcomings. When you first purchase your Tesla and are beginning the setup process, you’re presented with multiple warning screens like this: https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autostee... That’s an old image: I couldn’t find the current warning screen on Google Ima…

Advertising is a pre-purchase concern however, and requires companies to not be deceptive. "You'll figure out what our term really meant after you buy it" isn't much of a defense.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#176

Post by drcross »

ianmobbs wrote: post #84
ardit33 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While he has achieved a lot, His claims sometimes are downright bizarre... I don't know if it is just intentional deception, drugs, or some kind of bi-polar mania, or a combination of all the above. We should be able to make our Teslas to be fully automated robo-taxis by now... and earn cash on the side.... https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-p... I wouldn't trust my family's life, on his (ofte…

Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder'. He's a businessman, not a scientist

>He's a businessman, not a scientist

How can you even say that? I've heard more scientific discussions out of him compared to all the other CEO's I've ever heard speak combined. Musk has a head for physics and numbers and can easily come up with calculations for classical mechanics, material technology, information theory off the top of your head. For you to say the contrary is doublespeak.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#177

Post by random314 »

outworlder wrote: post #114
rhino369 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But autopilot in a plane doesn't require the pilot to take over in a split second. Keeping you level, at the right speed, in the right direction, etc. is enough to keep the plane safe. Pilots have tens of seconds to reorient themselves to avert any disaster. In contrast, Telsa "autopilot" requires constant vigilance since you might have to take over without any warning.

> But autopilot in a plane doesn't require the pilot to take over in a split second. That's a very broad statement. Autopilots can disengage at any time and you are supposed to take control pretty much immediately.

Like the op said, split second takeover is not required in a flight autopilot

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#178

Post by baxtr »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #21
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" I am not accusing you specifically of using weak language, but let's call a spade a spade: it's not a "goof," it's a dangerous and deceptive business practice. It's one that Elon Musk is directly responsible for and directly encouraged with misleading statements where he deliberately…

> It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman

That and the richest man on the planet. What does this tell about us as a species? Some compare him to the late Jobs. I think this couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#179

Post by dwighttk »

dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

With a copilot the pilot can go to the bathroom or go to sleep. Or die. Copilots are autonomous.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#180

Post by jdminhbg »

sgnelson wrote: post #154
smnrchrds wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple, HP, etc should take note and sell their laptops as "have the hardware needed for full AGI capability." Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine."

It's just software. How hard can it be? /s

That’s why I put “just” in scare quotes.
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