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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#111
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You're guna bet against Elon Musk? You really think that's wise? XD

Betting against Elon is a fools errand not because he's right, but because he's built a personality cult around himself.

"markets can remain irrational a lot longer than you and I can remain solvent."

TSLA proves this in spades, right now the stock is trading at more than double what Elon said was "overvalued" 10 weeks ago.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's dangerous, necessarily, unless you ignore people's personal responsibility in the situation as well. As currently designed, "Autopilot" requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel, provide rotational counter-weight on it, and you have to agree to safety and attention disclaimers before you can even enable the features. Yes, there are absolutely misconceptions that may happen with the gene…

> I don't think it's dangerous, necessarily, unless you ignore people's personal responsibility in the situation as well. Yes, but let us recognize the stark reality and known limitations of "the people" in the driving public - as Tesla should (and in my opinion did not or does not). Not suggesting you are, but Tesla cannot hand-wave it. While their may be an outsized amount of technical persons here on Hacker News t…

>when my wife and I test drove a Model X in Chicago a few years back, one of the first things that the Tesla salesperson did was to encourage my wife to remove her hands from the steering wheel in Autopilot mode

My fiancee was told to do the same thing with her new Toyota Corolla when purchasing it with lane assist...not that it's totally related but sort of enforces your point more that the general public is where the issue really shines.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#113
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Can someone provide a link to a Tesla advertisement? Haven't seen this.

https://www.tesla.com/de_de/models > Hardware für autonomes Fahren Jedes neue Model S verfügt standardmäßig über modernste Hardware, um die Autopilot-Funktionalität schon heute und vollkommen autonomes Fahren in der Zukunft zu ermöglichen. Software-Updates werden diese Funktionalität im Laufe der Zeit weiter ausbauen und verbessern. > Die Autopilot-Funktionalität ermöglicht dem Fahrzeug automatisches Lenken, Beschleu…

That’s a web site though, not an advertisement. Was asking about advertisements.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should have called it "CoPilot" [rather than "AutoPilot"] Huh but a co-pilot is much more capable than an auto-pilot system. An auto-pilot mostly keeps you level, going the right speed, and pointing in the right direction, and can do some limited landing and things. That sounds to me exactly like what Tesla's system does? A co-pilot is a human who can take complete control from you for the rest of the whole fl…

But autopilot in a plane doesn't require the pilot to take over in a split second. Keeping you level, at the right speed, in the right direction, etc. is enough to keep the plane safe. Pilots have tens of seconds to reorient themselves to avert any disaster. In contrast, Telsa "autopilot" requires constant vigilance since you might have to take over without any warning.

> But autopilot in a plane doesn't require the pilot to take over in a split second.

That's a very broad statement. Autopilots can disengage at any time and you are supposed to take control pretty much immediately.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#115

Good. These statements are lies. The company should face punishment in the US for saying that full self-driving is blocked by “regulatory approval” when they’re still an unknown number of years away from even being able to demo something they plan to ship. They still don’t know if full self-driving is even possible at the required level of reliability with their current hardware suite. They could well be wrong and si…

[deleted]

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#117
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Tesla has been selling level 5 autonomy since 2016. I can see nothing wrong with that. Definitely not vaporware /s https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...

I realize this is a sarcastic comment, but I think this illustrates the problem. Tesla vehicles cannot operate fully autonomous as-of now. Tesla has no idea if they'll need to replace or upgrade hardware either. They simply have not solved the problem yet, but want everyone to buy into the hype. And, the hype machine is working, unfortunately.

It's a scam. They're implying level 5 capability is just around the corner, when none of the current hardware will ever get past level 2. The current cameras can't even stay clean enough to keep autopilot reliable, it'd be pretty foolish to rely on them for any kind of real self-driving.

I love my car but the FSD debacle is embarassing. A lot of people are finding out that they'll never get anywhere near $8K value from their pre-purchase, and they bought a license that expires when they sell the car. I expect a class action lawsuit eventually (I'm surprised it hasn't happened already).

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's dangerous, necessarily, unless you ignore people's personal responsibility in the situation as well. As currently designed, "Autopilot" requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel, provide rotational counter-weight on it, and you have to agree to safety and attention disclaimers before you can even enable the features. Yes, there are absolutely misconceptions that may happen with the gene…

Apparently, the dictionaries are in conspiracy with the general public, as they also define autopilot as "a device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement". The etymology of the word automatic is also very telling. Generally we ascribe meaning to words by how people use it, and I'm not sure I'd call marketers people.

> Apparently, the dictionaries are in conspiracy with the general public, as they also define autopilot as "a device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement".

This is describing cruise control.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#119

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

It sure does get them a lot of attention though! My Jeep Cherokee has lane assist, adaptive cruise control, auto-parking, and crash detection (emergency braking) but they don’t get all this press about it.

Maybe because it’s not the same ? I don’t own a Jeep but Lane assist typically means warning the user if you drive over the line. Tesla steers by itself and more.

Adaptive Cruise Control typically works only above a given speed. Tesla’s does work at low speed too.

At least Tesla cars seem to do more than the German cars I have driven before.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, the dictionaries are in conspiracy with the general public, as they also define autopilot as "a device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement". The etymology of the word automatic is also very telling. Generally we ascribe meaning to words by how people use it, and I'm not sure I'd call marketers people.

Is a car now interchangeable with "aircraft, spacecraft, or ships"?

Yes.
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