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Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

roguelazer.com

101–110 of 648 posts

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#101
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Go Language.

Go was made by a small group of smart people with debatable loyalty to Google. Google just ran with it, and they haven't done a great job with it since.

I'm not sure what you mean by debatable loyalty. The creators of the language have all worked at the company for more than 10 years and support the product for internal users.

Can you put your grinding axe away and stick entirely to facts and technical merits?

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#102
post #6

This just reads as a systems engineer who is angry about new tooling/processes replacing parts of their job.

I think he/she made it clear it is needlessly replacing parts of the job. The question is, should one feel any one way about that. I’d imagine it would be the most annoying thing on earth, so it’s a valid emotion being expressed.

> I think he/she made it clear it is needlessly replacing parts of the job

Maybe? There weren't any actual reasons for why the author so vehemently disliked all of the technologies mentioned, and there was certainly no acknowledgement of the potential benefits of them.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#103
post #97
post #35

Author is really good at discrediting themselves straight off the bat in one sentence: > for a ~~bullshit~~ unsuccessful project called CoreOS Container Linux that was EOL'd several years ago CoreOS was actually quite successful to me as an outside observer. It had decent paid user base as well as people using it without paying. It has showed people that Chrome OS can be used to build atomically updating host OS with…

I didn't even know CoreOS was going away, looks like there is a Fedora CoreOS which seems essentially the same. https://coreos.com/os/eol/

Fedora CoreOS is slightly different and not 1:1 compatible. https://www.flatcar-linux.org is a fork of the original which is actively developed.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#104
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is dishonest/revisionist about the statement you have quoted?

How tedious to have to constantly refute FUD when it's easy to find the answers with Google. Anyone involved in Kubernetes, near CoreOS at the time, or really anywhere in the space at the time (instead of looking back at it with anger), knows this all to be false. CoreOS was setting direction for etcd, and understandably adding features for one of its bigger users (and in fact, some of those features are used by thin…

Thanks. I just wanted to know what the author meant; it wasn't obvious that I needed to Google the quote to figure out the meaning. I certainly hope that I wasn't adding any FUD to the discussion.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go was made by a small group of smart people with debatable loyalty to Google. Google just ran with it, and they haven't done a great job with it since.

I'm not sure what you mean by debatable loyalty. The creators of the language have all worked at the company for more than 10 years and support the product for internal users. Can you put your grinding axe away and stick entirely to facts and technical merits?

Look, Go has way more to do with the experience of its creators than with their contact with the engineering culture of Google. The influences from Plan 9, Inferno, Limbo, and so on are all extremely apparent in Golang's design and were all born outside of Google. Very little of Google's spirit made it into Go.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#106
post #70
post #47

I run k8s in production and I think this is a really bizarre axe to grind that sort of smells like someone who got upset by how steep the kubernetes learning curve is. Which, in a way, is understandable. > 1) Add hundreds of new failure modes to your software In my entirely anecdotal experience, it removes error modes. It turns out that just because k8s offers a feature (it offers many!) doesn't mean you're required…

What's wrong with the YAML? It's easy to read and write, concise, and generally has sane defaults meaning you don't have to be overly verbose.

Mostly that it's a single projection of an underlying data model. Where the projection is a snug fit, great. But typically folks want sets of things and suddenly it's a bit chatty.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#107
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statements are overly hostile and hyperbolic. There's been plenty of great software out of Google and lots of good ideas taken for granted. I'll give you folks trying to build things the Google way without Google tools or scale is more often than not the wrong thing to do, but that doesn't invalidate the good.

Name a single piece of good software from Google.

dm-verity

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#108
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statements are overly hostile and hyperbolic. There's been plenty of great software out of Google and lots of good ideas taken for granted. I'll give you folks trying to build things the Google way without Google tools or scale is more often than not the wrong thing to do, but that doesn't invalidate the good.

Name a single piece of good software from Google.

I initially thought this was serious hyperbole and I still think it may overstate things a bit, but when I thought about it I actually had a really hard time coming up with counterexamples. Meanwhile it’s easy for Microsoft and Apple. Huh. Best I can do is products that were great at launch... like 12-15 years ago.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#109
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is dishonest/revisionist about the statement you have quoted?

How many of the original committers still work at Google? I think it's clear that the author means to point out that the originators have left Google.

According to the others on this thread it's related to the date when Kubernetes was released. It wasn't clear to me, but thank you, I think you raise another good point.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#110
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statements are overly hostile and hyperbolic. There's been plenty of great software out of Google and lots of good ideas taken for granted. I'll give you folks trying to build things the Google way without Google tools or scale is more often than not the wrong thing to do, but that doesn't invalidate the good.

Name a single piece of good software from Google.

Bazel, gRpc, Guava, Go, Dart, I could go on but you technically only asked for one.
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