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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#81

Post by bgorman »

chki wrote: post #26
bgorman wrote: post #12

I wonder how much BMW/Daimler/Volkswagen had to do with this. It is a common practice for technology companies to offer features that will only become available after a certain time period. It actually takes time and money to build these features. I'm sure the fact that BMW/Daimler/VW have completely botched their EV/Autonomous vehicle strategy and the automotive industry is Germany's cash cow has nothing at all to d…

> I'm sure the fact that BMW/Daimler/VW have completely botched their EV/Autonomous vehicle strategy and the automotive industry is Germany's cash cow has nothing at all to do with the court's decision. What are you implying? That the German Court felt pressured by the Auto Lobby to take this decision? That the judges were biased? Bribed? Vague statements like this are very unhelpful, because you can't argue against…

I am implying that governments (including court systems) often make decisions directly and indirectly to protect domestic companies at the expense of foreign companies.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#82

Post by DanBC »

pjc50 wrote: post #79
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deceptive healthcare ads aren’t allowed in Europe either. Consumer protection standards are much higher.

Heck, in the UK if a medicine is prescription-only you're not allowed to advertise it at all . This is a great improvement, frankly.

> you're not allowed to advertise it at all.

You're not allowed to advertise it to the general public. You can still advertise it to prescribers and suppliers.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advertise-your-medicines

> You can’t advertise prescription-only medicines (POMs) to the general public but you can promote them to healthcare professionals and others who can prescribe or supply the product.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#83

Post by dheera »

dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

> They should have called it "CoPilot"

I agree with this fully, although the reality now is if Tesla used this name Ford might sue them.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#84

Post by ianmobbs »

ardit33 wrote: post #72
typon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange how much people will bend over backwards to give Musk the benefit of doubt when he openly lies about such things

While he has achieved a lot, His claims sometimes are downright bizarre... I don't know if it is just intentional deception, drugs, or some kind of bi-polar mania, or a combination of all the above. We should be able to make our Teslas to be fully automated robo-taxis by now... and earn cash on the side.... https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-p... I wouldn't trust my family's life, on his (ofte…

Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder'. He's a businessman, not a scientist

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#85

Post by FabHK »

chrisseaton wrote: post #23
catalogia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that the general public has an inaccurate understanding of what airplane autopilots are capable of. The belief that modern airline pilots just push a button to turn on the plane then take a nap until the plane lands is widespread. In naming their system after a system the public has a poor understanding of, Tesla is being misleading.

However good the public think autopilots are, I'm sure they don't think they're more capable than a co-pilot!

Etymologically though, the co-pilot is pilot along with you and supports you, while the auto-pilot is a pilot by itself, independently (dare I say: autonomously).

"Autopilot" remains a very misleading term in the car context.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#86

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

gibolt wrote: post #63
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #25

Good. These statements are lies. The company should face punishment in the US for saying that full self-driving is blocked by “regulatory approval” when they’re still an unknown number of years away from even being able to demo something they plan to ship. They still don’t know if full self-driving is even possible at the required level of reliability with their current hardware suite. They could well be wrong and si…

When it gets there, regulatory approval will absolutely be a bottleneck to deployment. They don't say it is a current blocker. And it won't come close to Theranos. Tesla makes real products that are class-leading. Even if Tesla can't reach level 5, it will be damn close and make driving 10-100x safer than just a human.

Sure, but to even mention it now is disingenuous because they’re not even close to having a solution that their own engineering department would be willing to ship.

You and I have no idea whether it’s possible to get close to level 5 with their currently shipping hardware. Neither do they. And this stuff about being 10-100x safer than a human is pure fantasy right now. The industry is incredibly far away from that and there’s no evidence to suggest Tesla is years ahead of other teams working on the problem.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#87

Post by hef19898 »

Alupis wrote: post #11
H8crilA wrote: post #2

Tesla has been selling level 5 autonomy since 2016. I can see nothing wrong with that. Definitely not vaporware /s https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...

I realize this is a sarcastic comment, but I think this illustrates the problem. Tesla vehicles cannot operate fully autonomous as-of now. Tesla has no idea if they'll need to replace or upgrade hardware either. They simply have not solved the problem yet, but want everyone to buy into the hype. And, the hype machine is working, unfortunately.

Sometimes it seems hype is the main fuel driving Elon's businesses. Self driving and self driving taxis for Tesla, Starlink for SpaceX,...

But I have to admit, marketing wise he is a genius.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#88

Post by kahlonel »

This is good, even though it could be a possible result of VW/BMW/Mercedes lobbying efforts. Human life safety is the top priority in any industry in Germany. Regulations are keeping Germany a little behind in the innovation race but, at the end, it is all worth it if people are not dying everyday because of failed tech.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#89

Post by FabHK »

perbu wrote: post #8
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

Have you flown on autopilot? It maintains speed, height and direction. It doesn't land or take off. Originally it couldn't even turn.

Sure. And during those hours of straight and level flight you can read a book or talk to the cabin crew or have a meal. Shouldn't do that in the car (yet).

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#90

Post by dkonofalski »

chrisseaton wrote: post #5
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

> They should have called it "CoPilot" [rather than "AutoPilot"] Huh but a co-pilot is much more capable than an auto-pilot system. An auto-pilot mostly keeps you level, going the right speed, and pointing in the right direction, and can do some limited landing and things. That sounds to me exactly like what Tesla's system does? A co-pilot is a human who can take complete control from you for the rest of the whole fl…

You're transposing airplane terminology with automobile terminology. In a car, the co-pilot is typically someone that sits in the passenger seat and functions only as an additional set of eyes. They can't take complete control over the vehicle from that spot. Cars, unlike airplanes, don't have two sets of full controls.
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