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Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

roguelazer.com

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Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#51

Post by Xorlev »

ddevault wrote: post #10

Oh man, thank you for this. I cannot stand the engineering culture of Google and I especially cannot stand the engineering culture of Google wannabes. Google ruins everything they touch, and I'm really sick of the engineering worship they most certainly do not deserve. Every single piece of software to come out of Google is overengineered, broken garbage.

Your statements are overly hostile and hyperbolic. There's been plenty of great software out of Google and lots of good ideas taken for granted. I'll give you folks trying to build things the Google way without Google tools or scale is more often than not the wrong thing to do, but that doesn't invalidate the good.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#52

Post by raincom »

dilandau wrote: post #9

There's a lot of justified hatred for kubernetes, but for fuck's sake why did anyone adopt it in the first place, if they didn't understand what they were getting into? It's like the startups from 10 years ago who absolutely had to use MongoDB because "scale", and then they never get off the ground because they're trying to implement ACID from first principles.

There is a cost for not getting on a hype train. CEOs rather waste a couple of billion dollars on that machine learning/AI hype train, because if they don't hop on that train, Wall street folks see these companies old-school, not innovating. So, they bring in Chief AI officer and write about about how machine learning gonna help their companies in the Quarterly reports. Even if they lose $2B in this AI venture, just treat as insurance premium to keep the stock price going up.

Same with all these technologies.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#53

Post by intro-b »

dilandau wrote: post #20
miked85 wrote: post #6

This just reads as a systems engineer who is angry about new tooling/processes replacing parts of their job.

Nice projection my dude. It's a lamentation of the introduction of complexity into a formerly-simple set of APIs.

Lamenting about complexity just for the sake of lamenting about complexity and then adding a few potshots at Google/FB/etc. doesn't exactly make for a thought-provoking, nuanced, or interesting argument, though

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#54

Post by pm90 »

dijit wrote: post #39
mooted1 wrote: post #18

bai

> This guy used to run infra at uber and was incredibly salty about every single new technology. There were a lot of bad ones, but every conversation was about as constructive, free of evidence, and bitter as this blog post. I'm going to assume you're a developer? Infra people are usually much more apprehensive to take on new technology. Crucially I would describe classically trained sysadmins as 'pessimists to the c…

The apprehensiveness of sysadmins May have been justified in the world 5 years ago but today it sounds somewhat out of place. Note that critically evaluating new technologies is still an important skill and many infrastructure people I work with are extremely cautious about adopting new tech without spiking/getting to know it. But the sysadmins with the penchant for saying no is probably one of the reasons the devops movement actually kicked off: developers and infrastructure folks could see the immense productivity gains from being able to ship code quickly to production and got onboard the technologies that enabled this after being frustrated with the amount of time that traditional software deployment processes took.

So in today’s world, that kind of attitude is hardly productive. Skeptical? Absolutely. But open minded.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#55

Post by candiddevmike »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #21
dimgl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some of the arguments against `systemd`? I've used it in several production systems and don't really have an opinion on it.

Almost like with etcd, it started simple, but got expanded into a huge incomprehensible monster by the original developers. Politically and business-wise, systemd is a clear win for Lennaert and his clique, as well as the whole Redhat/IBM. But I am sure that future historians will view the impact of systemd on computing as largely negative.

The systemd/RH relationship is complicated. Red Hat doesn't use most of systemd's features--they don't even ship systemd-networkd on RHEL8, preferring NetworkManager instead. On the flipside, I see more use of systemd's features on Arch or Debian.

I don't think you can frame systemd as some kind of RH trojan horse when so little of it makes it into RHEL/Fedora.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#57

Post by bandrami »

pm90 wrote: post #54
dijit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This guy used to run infra at uber and was incredibly salty about every single new technology. There were a lot of bad ones, but every conversation was about as constructive, free of evidence, and bitter as this blog post. I'm going to assume you're a developer? Infra people are usually much more apprehensive to take on new technology. Crucially I would describe classically trained sysadmins as 'pessimists to the c…

The apprehensiveness of sysadmins May have been justified in the world 5 years ago but today it sounds somewhat out of place. Note that critically evaluating new technologies is still an important skill and many infrastructure people I work with are extremely cautious about adopting new tech without spiking/getting to know it. But the sysadmins with the penchant for saying no is probably one of the reasons the devops…

Revisit this comment of yours in a decade.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#58

Post by [deleted] »

pm90 wrote: post #54
dijit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This guy used to run infra at uber and was incredibly salty about every single new technology. There were a lot of bad ones, but every conversation was about as constructive, free of evidence, and bitter as this blog post. I'm going to assume you're a developer? Infra people are usually much more apprehensive to take on new technology. Crucially I would describe classically trained sysadmins as 'pessimists to the c…

The apprehensiveness of sysadmins May have been justified in the world 5 years ago but today it sounds somewhat out of place. Note that critically evaluating new technologies is still an important skill and many infrastructure people I work with are extremely cautious about adopting new tech without spiking/getting to know it. But the sysadmins with the penchant for saying no is probably one of the reasons the devops…

[deleted]

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#59

Post by ddevault »

Xorlev wrote: post #51
ddevault wrote: post #10

Oh man, thank you for this. I cannot stand the engineering culture of Google and I especially cannot stand the engineering culture of Google wannabes. Google ruins everything they touch, and I'm really sick of the engineering worship they most certainly do not deserve. Every single piece of software to come out of Google is overengineered, broken garbage.

Your statements are overly hostile and hyperbolic. There's been plenty of great software out of Google and lots of good ideas taken for granted. I'll give you folks trying to build things the Google way without Google tools or scale is more often than not the wrong thing to do, but that doesn't invalidate the good.

Name a single piece of good software from Google.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#60

Post by cylon13 »

dijit wrote: post #39
mooted1 wrote: post #18

bai

> This guy used to run infra at uber and was incredibly salty about every single new technology. There were a lot of bad ones, but every conversation was about as constructive, free of evidence, and bitter as this blog post. I'm going to assume you're a developer? Infra people are usually much more apprehensive to take on new technology. Crucially I would describe classically trained sysadmins as 'pessimists to the c…

I love that we're far enough in the future that there's such a thing as a classically trained sysadmin.
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