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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#101

Post by lostapathy »

ghaff wrote: post #73
smichel17 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, bills are much different from regular printer paper, closer to fabric. As long as you're not taking them for a swim regularly, they should be fine. (That said, when I've lived in Germany, I very much enjoyed the existence of €1 and €2 coins -- I've written about it on here before, if you're willing to scroll very far back in my post history).

>I very much enjoyed the existence of €1 and €2 coins Uggh. When I travel in Europe-- especially Germany with its remaining heavy use of cash--I hate coinage that is sufficiently valuable that I can't just basically ignore it. The US seriously tried to do a dollar coin (the Susan B. Anthony)--which was arguably ill-conceived for at least a couple of reasons but I'm very happy with US coinage being basically loose cha…

The US still mints several dollar coins - although the Susan B Anthony coins haven't been minted in over 20 years.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_(United_States)#Sa...

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#102

Post by lostapathy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #98
zeepzeep wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going for a swim with $300 in my pocket. Money isn't waterproof where you live?

Paper money isn't waterproof in the US.

It's pretty close, though. It easily survives a trip through the washing machine or a swim

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#103

Post by harryh »

hagy wrote: post #100
MH15 wrote: post #93

At some point us in the US will have to figure out how to cope with the issues our Democracy has with making changes and overcoming momentum. It seems our government is uniquely unsuited in this capacity in comparison to other modern democracies as seen with healthcare, income inequality, and the recent pandemic response.

I think the best approach is for the US to move more concerns to the state level. E.g., it would be great if states would start implementing their own universal healthcare for their residents. States commonly have more internally aligned political goals and therefore can move quicker. It also has the benefit of allowing different states to experiment with different solutions and all states can learn from the results.…

it would be great if states would start implementing their own universal healthcare for their residents

This isn't really feasible because residents of one state with no universal healthcare + lower taxes could easily move to another state with universal healthcare + higher taxes when they get a serious illness.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#104

Post by michaelt »

einpoklum wrote: post #25

I really like it that they offer you, instead of a site with a lot of junk and JS, a plain text version! That's much nicer news than the story itself :-) ... that said - why _don't_ you guys cancel the penny? > Penny defenders' strongest argument was that eliminating it would hurt consumers. All those $9.99 products? The prices would be jacked up to an even $10! That sounds like an argument made up retroactively to t…

> That sounds like an argument made up retroactively to try to justify something. Seriously?

If the latest console game rises from $79.99 to $80.00 it's a trivial increase, I agree. A hundredth of a percentage point.

But if a loaf of bread rises from $0.99 to $1.00 it's increased by an entire 1% - resulting in a noticeable impact on food price inflation. And when your inflation rate is around 0%-2% before, even a quarter of a percentage point is pretty noticeable to inflation-watchers.

IMHO we should do it anyway, though.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#105

Post by Brendinooo »

The melt value of a copper penny (1982 or prior) is worth more than the face value. However, it's illegal to melt down legal tender currency. AND, fun fact, it's illegal to leave the US with more than $5 worth of pennies, so you can't drive to Canada with a bag of pennies and melt them there.

So some people are now starting to hoard copper pennies, waiting for the day when pennies are no longer legal tender, and then...they'll make a modest profit, I guess.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#106

Post by lostapathy »

hagy wrote: post #100
MH15 wrote: post #93

At some point us in the US will have to figure out how to cope with the issues our Democracy has with making changes and overcoming momentum. It seems our government is uniquely unsuited in this capacity in comparison to other modern democracies as seen with healthcare, income inequality, and the recent pandemic response.

I think the best approach is for the US to move more concerns to the state level. E.g., it would be great if states would start implementing their own universal healthcare for their residents. States commonly have more internally aligned political goals and therefore can move quicker. It also has the benefit of allowing different states to experiment with different solutions and all states can learn from the results.…

Trivial inter-state mobility is a big obstacle for states doing grand social programs individually.

If a state provided universal healthcare for residents, it'd quickly be overwhelmed with "hard cases" from other states where coverage is a problem. Which would drive up costs, and taxes, and drive productive/healthy people out.

See the current inter-state shipping of homeless people, especially those who suffer mental illness, that is often done via bus tickets paid for by local governments looking to shed those people.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#107

Post by Cerium »

harryh wrote: post #103
hagy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best approach is for the US to move more concerns to the state level. E.g., it would be great if states would start implementing their own universal healthcare for their residents. States commonly have more internally aligned political goals and therefore can move quicker. It also has the benefit of allowing different states to experiment with different solutions and all states can learn from the results.…

it would be great if states would start implementing their own universal healthcare for their residents This isn't really feasible because residents of one state with no universal healthcare + lower taxes could easily move to another state with universal healthcare + higher taxes when they get a serious illness.

Full benefits could phase in over time. You could get increasing discounts on public services until you reach full state membership. This would be no different than out of state school fees.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#108

Post by clord »

bumby wrote: post #53
stilley2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a key difference between US policy & Canadian policy that I have informally noticed while growing up on the border (with family ties on both sides). My wife's Canadian and I'm American, and we've discussed this point too. My theory is that Canada's parliamentary system generally puts one party in charge of the executive and legislative, so it's easier for that party to get things done. Of course there are t…

So is that a bug or a feature of the US system? On one hand, beneficial change can be painstakingly slow. On the other, malevolent change can be stymied indefinitely Edit: clarify my statement was in reference to the US

The problem with checks and balances is that partisanship is paralyzing. If each side deems their causes good and the opponent evil that must be stopped, nothing happens. Some mechanism is required to build cooperation. Patriotism used to serve that role in the US but it’s not functioning since it too is becoming political.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#109

Post by harryh »

Cerium wrote: post #107
harryh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would be great if states would start implementing their own universal healthcare for their residents This isn't really feasible because residents of one state with no universal healthcare + lower taxes could easily move to another state with universal healthcare + higher taxes when they get a serious illness.

Full benefits could phase in over time. You could get increasing discounts on public services until you reach full state membership. This would be no different than out of state school fees.

The Supreme Court has ruled ideas like this unconstitutional.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-may-18-mn-38325...

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#110

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #5

Yes. Canada stopped producing pennies in the fall of 2012. [0] The sky didn't fall. There was no great debate, no public opinion polls and politicians swearing heartily about the demise of our great nation. (Ok that's probably not true. For too many politicians that's all they do.) There was resistance when Canada dropped the $1 bill in favour of a Loonie (a $1 coin with the image of a loon on it). People bitched abo…

>There was resistance when Canada dropped the $1 bill in favour of a Loonie (a $1 coin with the image of a loon on it). People bitched about having too much change in there pocket, pockets became too heavy, etc. I do however see more coins in tip & donation jars now then I ever saw paper money.

Sounds like you know why that is, because people don't want to be stuck carrying around big coins.

>Side note: If you drop the penny, for the love of $diety change your sales tax structure so that it's a multiple of 5. 5%, 10%, 15%, etc... Since Canada changed but left the taxes the same (14% in Ontario IIRC) there seems to be a lot of rounding-off in favour of companies instead of consumers. $0.01-$0.02 per transaction * millions of transactions per day has got to make some accountants happy.

Over the billions of dollars spent in a state per quarter, you are either seriously screwing consumers, or seriously reducing state government revenue. I'd really hate my 6% sales tax to be raised to 10% so that we could kill a coin I don't even use (last paid cash probably a year ago).

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