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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#191

Post by Waterfall »

totalZero wrote: post #165
Waterfall wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I want 5G. It sounds like wimax but faster. I don't think it gives that much benefit, triangulation already was able to bomb a terrorist in Russia in the 90s. How much worst could it get?

My understanding is that the difference between 5G density/localization and that of previous technologies is quite substantial, especially in urban areas. "The extension of spectrum range has an impact on the network architecture. mmwave cells will employ shorter ranges of around 100-to-200 meters which will require extreme densification to provide high coverage. 3G networks reached densities of fourto- five base sta…

I'm wondering how much worst it is since we already can track people pretty well with cellular data now. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, seems like they can already do all those things. How much worst can it be?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#192

Post by Nursie »

Barrin92 wrote: post #176
Nursie wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

nobody is saying that that is worse than literal concentration camps, what people are saying is that failures to live up to racial justice at home weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad, and that's a very valid point. And as far as communications infrastructure is concerned it's relevant too. In countries like Germany or Eastern Europe in particular the behaviour of espionage among allies ov…

But it is whataboutery when it's used to deflect and minimise the original criticisms of what the Chinese regime are doing, which is what we are seeing here.

What people are saying, pretty straight out and literally in some comments, is "Stop whining about China, the West is just as bad".

It's not, and it's pure distraction.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#193

Post by Karunamon »

Barrin92 wrote: post #176
Nursie wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

nobody is saying that that is worse than literal concentration camps, what people are saying is that failures to live up to racial justice at home weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad, and that's a very valid point. And as far as communications infrastructure is concerned it's relevant too. In countries like Germany or Eastern Europe in particular the behaviour of espionage among allies ov…

>weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad

It does no such thing. Being a hypocrite does not impact the correctness or incorrectness of what you're saying (which is why the tu quoque fallacy is a fallacy), doubly so when we're talking about entirely different categories of abuses that invalidate the hypocrisy charge anyways.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#194

Post by cptskippy »

Waterfall wrote: post #82
flohofwoe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the simplistic sort of thinking that capitalism and human rights are 'inseparable' from each other and can be 'exported' like Coca Cola or Blue Jeans is just a leftover from the Cold War. The reality is much more complicated unfortunately, together with the slowly growing realisation that the USA has quickly lost it's 'role model' status as the leader of the 'Free World' after the Cold War has ended. The West…

The US seems to be stuck in the 1950s, with much of the infrastructure and the attitudes in a similar state of stasis. The US however hasn't lost its role model status, despite embarrassments like Bush (unless your definition is different). The petrodollar is just as powerful as ever, the dollar is the most powerful currency still, and US hedgemony is just as powerful.

The US government is stagnated by politics and the current political culture focuses on screwing over the opposing party above all else. On the surface it seems like the grumpy old men in charge are just being stubborn and exercising their power to ensure their opponents lose, but if you look at the legislation that does get passed you start to see something very different.

Most of the legislation passed revolves around redistribution of wealth, and it's not taking from the rich and giving to the poor but quite the opposite. Any and all amassed wealth is being extracted from the poor and being given out to businesses in the form of lucrative contracts or, more recently, bailouts. The companies that receive this money promise that it's going to trickle down while they fill Golden Parachutes, perform stock buy backs, and find other ways to funnel that money to their wealthy share holders.

The message for decades was that the government was inefficient and wasteful, and that private business can do it better. We've all heard the stories of the $300 hammer. But when things are privatized things generally get worse. Fewer workers earning lower wages doing more work but the overall product is worse and it's usually not cheaper. Any and all reductions in cost are just converted into profit margin.

The US is being sucked dry and when there's nothing left, the globalist in charge will just up and move on.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#195

Post by gruez »

Waterfall wrote: post #191
totalZero wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the difference between 5G density/localization and that of previous technologies is quite substantial, especially in urban areas. "The extension of spectrum range has an impact on the network architecture. mmwave cells will employ shorter ranges of around 100-to-200 meters which will require extreme densification to provide high coverage. 3G networks reached densities of fourto- five base sta…

I'm wondering how much worst it is since we already can track people pretty well with cellular data now. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, seems like they can already do all those things. How much worst can it be?

Its the difference between knowing which neighborhood you're in and which street or mabye even which house you're in.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#196

Post by jaekash »

throwawaybab323 wrote: post #189
jaekash wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bit weird that there are whole movements like BDS setup against Isreal, a wholly democratic and liberal country where people of all religions enjoy the same rights and nobody is placed in concentration camps, while every time someone mentions that China is a bad actor we get asked why does BDS not exists. BDS does exist, and China is a bad actor and should be opposed.

The US condemned BDS by the way. Look it up.

I assume you are referring to the Democrat controlled US House passing a resolution with bipartisan support and a 398-17 vote which condemns BDS[1].

BDS is still allowed to operate and the condemnation has no state-actionable consequences against BDS. And there are members of the US congress who openly support BDS.

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/us/politics/house-israel-...

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#197

Post by jvanderbot »

cm2187 wrote: post #188
londons_explore wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of that victory, according to the BBC, is a 1 year delay in the rollout of 5G tech. That's a pretty large economic cost. Bob can't watch his medical lectures on the train, so ends up behind in class, Mary's company looses a contract to a foreign competitor because she got frustrated with her bad VPN and didn't read over the bid one last time, Fred couldn't afford the cost of the new 5G contracts so didn't ge…

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but assuming you aren't. No consumer is asking for 5g, and I don't think any consumer will realise the difference. And not sure that 5g can do much good on a train, unless the train circles around inside a big city and never goes in the countryside where what matters is antenna with long range.

5g also doesn't beat my wifi. My wife and I slashed our data plans during COVID.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#198

Post by hnarn »

rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

> And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening?

If your argument here is “who cares if we can trust the hardware if the encryption works” I’d encourage you to think about how you know that the encryption “works” if you can’t trust the hardware. A lot of the encryption is out of necessity far removed from the end user, it’s not exactly PGP over email. And everything is never encrypted, the operations of mobile networks require a lot of extra metadata about the operations that is still sensitive even if you completely disregard the traffic over the network.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#199

Post by Karunamon »

joshuaissac wrote: post #116
drieddust wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't dealing with China. You dealing with CCP ruling China with ironhand. Recently they even failed to honour their fallen soldiers in recent clashes with India and you think they will let you know how many they killed in Hong Kong.

> and you think they will let you know how many they killed in Hong Kong. In the case of Hong Kong, there is no need to rely on the CCP to tell us how many they killed. Hong Kong has much higher levels of press freedom than China, and deaths would likely be made known in other ways.[1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

That's likely changing soon. China basically stepped in and got a "security law" passed, which strips a lot of autonomy away from HK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#200

Post by chosenbreed37 »

est31 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #2

The China-US tensions are not going to get better, and, in fact, will get worse as years go by. More and more nations will be forced to choose sides. It's not good and I'm not sure what a resolution even looks like.

A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. They'd want to expand just as they want to expand now. Just look at the various western colonial empires of history. Many of them were democracies in some form or fashion. Any long term resolution to the conflict has t…

> A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world.

I wonder about this. Why does totalitarianism in a sovereign nation need to be fought? For those of us considering a democratic China...why do we think the country would fare better as a democracy? The Chinese civilisation is goes back thousands of years. Could the system they have now be the cumulative effect of all they have gone through to date? In other words it has evolved and generally serves its people. It may evolve into something else (possibly resembling Western democracies) but it may not. I don't particularly think it has to.

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