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The unbundling of Harvard has begun

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Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#11

Post by hatmatrix »

roenxi wrote: post #10

I'm not sure if this gentleman has a thesis but Harvard online education is worth not much. The whole value proposition of Harvard is that you socialise and bond with the sort of people who get in to Harvard. You probably have the phone number of whoever runs Goldman Sachs [0] and you know the President of Whereveristan's daughter because she was in your class. The little things in life. It is possible but unlikely t…

> Harvard online education is worth not much You're typically paying for three things:

1. The education 2. The network 3. The brand

Even if 1 is not many times greater at Harvard than another institution, 2 and 3 are. Even without 2, a Harvard degree will send a signal that will open doors that might otherwise be closed.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#12

Post by xyst »

~$80K per semester at Harvard. I now understand why almost every graduate of Harvard tends to bring up the fact they graduated from Harvard on nearly every conversation.

I went to a public school and my 4 year tuition cost is equivalent to half the cost of single a semester at Harvard. I only graduated a couple of years ago so inflation is negligible.

Guess who I work with the most and still earn the same wage (if not more)? It makes you wonder if Ivy League is nothing more than a brand name at this point.

It’s like buying anything “Supreme” or Gucci related, except for the “intellectuals”.

As for the article, I didn’t really care too much for it. Sort of just skimmed through it and it seemed like an ad for something he was part of. The only thing that caught my eye was the tuition bill at Harvard.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#13

Post by anonunivgrad »

A big function that universities play is circumventing some arguably bad interpretations of labor law. In the United States, it is essentially illegal to hire based on the results of an intelligence test. This is the result of various cases interpreting and applying the disparate impact doctrine. But no one bats an eye when you send your recruiters to only the "elite" universities or when your company is overwhelmingly staffed with top-20-university graduates and won't even consider the applications of people from "lesser" schools. That's despite the fact that which university you attend is largely a function of your SAT score (and to a lesser degree, your grades), an intelligence test.

No one looks at Harvard on your resume and thinks "they must have learned so much at Harvard". The thought is laughably absurd. It's not that someone can't learn something at Harvard, it's that everyone knows Harvard academic rigor is a joke and you can just as easily party your way through 4 years and graduate with a B+ average. They think "they got into Harvard, so they must be smart". The most important department at Harvard is the admissions department.

This strange power is then abused for the sake of funding the institution, pursuing its political goals, etc. Donor's children get preference. Politically-favored groups get preference. Applicants who signal that they share certain views get preference. I'm sure the motives are often quite noble, but it is corrupting nonetheless I think. They are just counting on the fact that it's still worth treating a Harvard degree as a proxy of intelligence despite the fudging they do at the edges.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#14

Post by typest »

xyst wrote: post #12

~$80K per semester at Harvard. I now understand why almost every graduate of Harvard tends to bring up the fact they graduated from Harvard on nearly every conversation. I went to a public school and my 4 year tuition cost is equivalent to half the cost of single a semester at Harvard. I only graduated a couple of years ago so inflation is negligible. Guess who I work with the most and still earn the same wage (if no…

> I only graduated a couple of years ago so inflation is negligible.

If only inflation were the only thing driving the price up! The whole problem with college cost is that cost is increasing faster than inflation.

I went to a similar university to Harvard. I enrolled in 2013, and the total cost per year was under 60k. It's now 80k. Cost of attendance is increasing at ~ 4% per year, which is entirely unsustainable. Crazy how a couple years means a difference of 20k per year = 80k over 4 years.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#15

Post by helen___keller »

This is a strange choice of title because Harvard is easily among the institutions that will be least affected by the pandemic.

While it may be true that for the world's elite that the value prop of Harvard is rubbing elbows with other elites, it's also true that for the rest of us the value prop of Harvard is merely having it on your resume. There's no shortage of talented students who'd love Harvard on their resume even if they have to spend a year remote.

Some of the opinions expressed in this article seem rather naive, such as:

> Use your time to start an online business. Live at home, spend as little money as possible, and find a side job if you need to.

For students in a pandemic, "live at home, spend as little money as possible" is basically implied outside of education expenses. So at this point we return to the standard debate: is a diploma worth the cost of tuition and opportunity cost on time spent? This argument has been played out a million times and is otherwise unchanged by the pandemic.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#16

Post by nootropicat »

eezurr wrote: post #2

I couldn't finish reading this. While interesting, I sense a lot of hype, and deliberate bending of meaning (e.g. federal government less strict about requiring college degree -> all companies less strict) Traditional college is not just about information scarcity either. People also go to bond, network, participate in extracurricular groups, party, etc. Traditional college isnt going to go anywhere. Also, it's depre…

>Also, it's depressing to think of society sitting behind a screen all day. I think most people feel the same way. We need to stop using technology to tear apart the social fabric of society.

You are witnessing the mere beginning. Wait for despair before a typical job consists of donning a vr gear with some controllers (possibly brain implants) to control a humanoid robot far away. It's hard to think of a job that couldn't be automated this way except for security, as cutting off the signal would be a big failure point + laws that prevent civilians from using robots for violence. The only other real limitation is latency, so Indians in India probably won't cut grass in SF, just Mexicans (in Mexico).

In the longer run, this could kill cities or even states. People could live on ships in international waters, under a flag of some tax haven, but near the place they want to work to ensure low latency. Wages would equalize globally very fast.

Last but not least, versatile enough humanoid robots also mean nearly perfect sexbots - whether ai or remote controlled.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#17

Post by d883kd8 »

helen___keller wrote: post #15

This is a strange choice of title because Harvard is easily among the institutions that will be least affected by the pandemic. While it may be true that for the world's elite that the value prop of Harvard is rubbing elbows with other elites, it's also true that for the rest of us the value prop of Harvard is merely having it on your resume. There's no shortage of talented students who'd love Harvard on their resume…

Rubbing elbows with the elites is worth even more if you're not already part of the club

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#18

Post by tmaly »

Freshman year is the real deal. Its where you meet new friends and bond. I cannot really see the value of an online only first year.

I see this also as an opportunity to improve the online aspect of education. I remember one of my electrical engineering classes had all the lectures recorded and available at the library. This was before YouTube. But it was great that you could re-watch them for points you missed. Better online material could be a boon for primary education. Imagine a public school with a low budget. What happens to the very talented students?

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#19

Post by kanobo »

PSA: The 80k price tag is the sticker price. The actual average cost of Harvard is < 15k when you account for aid and parents bargaining down the price. So please try to negotiate the price if you are actually considering paying 80k.

Re: The unbundling of Harvard has begun

#20

Post by logicchains »

lordnacho wrote: post #7

I'm looking forward to a time when you can simply pass a highly creditable exam without having to attend class. This will probably require the reputation of an existing high-rep university, but once it's happenend, things are going to be very different. Imagine if you could be anywhere in the world but claim to have passed the math course of some famous university. I think that would change a lot of things about how…

It's somewhat ironic that this is how many universities worked a hundred years ago.
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