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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#101

Post by hrktb »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #50
hrktb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a EU/UK perspective there’s no good coming from it. It’s like being caught in a fight between your drunk uncle and your berserk cousin.

There is definitely good coming out of it for the EU. Europe does not have to align with either side. It is a superpower in its own right if it gets its shit together (one can dream).

This is not some neutral decision, but a move forced by the fallout of US sanctions, that the UK can’t do anything about.

They’re giving up a partnership they entered after independently reviewing the equipment, I can’t see how it is a good outcome for them.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#102

Post by __alexs »

Waterfall wrote: post #51
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

China puts their own citizens in concentration camps. They're using machine learning to generate social scores. If you don't like America or the UK, you can leave. Try doing that in China. Dying in a free zone is preferable to the enslavement that the Chinese are subjected to. Freedom has a price, and it's not racist to not like these horrible cultural values or to go against them.

> China puts their own citizens in concentration camps.

Is putting other countries citizens in concentration camps somehow morally superior?

> They're using machine learning to generate social scores.

America also has this they just call it a "credit score" or "klout".

> If you don't like America or the UK, you can leave.

Wow all my US expat friends who constantly complain about having to pay US taxes despite living here in the UK must have things totally wrong then.

> it's not racist to not like these horrible cultural values or to go against them.

No it's racist to ignore the injustices we commit in the west while condemning Asian countries for doing the same thing with different branding.

The argument isn't "China is good actually." It's "We do most of the same stuff you are accusing them of."

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#103

Post by dogma1138 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #13

Total crap;either it is a security risk and it has to be removed yesterday or it is not. 2027 is meaningless.

A potential security risk in a conflict with China doesn’t mean an existential eminent risk.

That equipment is everywhere it will take years and cost billions to remove and replace.

And yes there has been already pushback around it both in terms of demands to lower the time frame to 3 years and to increase it to 10.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#104

Post by jtdev »

einpoklum wrote: post #62
bluerobotcat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you can give 'American cops routinely kill people' as an example of human rights violations that are being ignored. Is change lacking? Yes. Is there outrage? Also yes. Of course, had you were to make the point that Western politicians are complete hypocrites then I would wholeheartedly agree. Although, I also don't think that's a uniquely Western phenomenon.

When mass uprisings are necessary for even a serious discussion of the problem (intention to resolve it is nowhere in sight) - then, yes, killing by cops is being ignored and has been ignored.

You’re completely ignoring the fact that protest and speech are exactly how things change in a free democratic society. Try that in China and you’re likely to find yourself in a “re-education” (concentration) camp. It’s not apples to apples comparing the US to China in terms of human rights and civil society... China is truly an authoritarian regime.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#105

Post by [deleted] »

lihan wrote: post #89
room271 wrote: post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

I disagree. Reports about China from many western media tend to exaggerate things about China, mostly influenced by western politics, not good at all. Also, western media tend to report selective facts to only show things they want people to hear and see. The right to life is the first clause of human right, which I see they are violated in many western countries. They refuse to treat the poor and old. Do you hear Ch…

[deleted]

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#106

Post by jk20 »

jaekash wrote: post #72
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China puts their own citizens in concentration camps. The usual counterpoint here is the US incarceration rate.

A prison is not a concentration camp, US has a justice system with the right to trial and appeal, and if the people in prison actually committed crimes then I'm not sure what the problem is.

Even people in concentration camps went through legal proceedings of sorts. See e.g. the infamous Article 58 of Soviet penal code.

You can always tweak law to make criminal out of anyone inconvenient. Wasn't Assange's consensual sex relegated to rape?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#107

Post by jaekash »

pinkfoot wrote: post #76
jaekash wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> value-systems are only 'values' and a 'system' when they are well-defined and consistently applied.

I get what you are trying to say but definitely a value system requires neither of those things.

> So most of the planet will only buy thise elaborate line when Saudi Arabia and Pakistan get told to keep their riches.

There is hypocrisy but the threat posed by China to the liberal world order is much more serious than the thread posed by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and in both those cases there is a bit of a deal with the devil.

If the Saudi and Pakistani regimes fall we will probably see much worse things popping up.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#108

Post by cm2187 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

Even if everything was encrypted (which is not the case) and that encryption could not be downgraded by a mitm (which is not the case - cf starttls), it can still be used to track whereabouts, or disrupt the connectivity or utilise any mitm zero day.

But a good question would be why 5g, and not every other computer chip in any computer and network equipment, which could be backdoored, and I doubt anyone verified the conformity of the chip to the blueprint sent to the factory.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#109

Post by ecocentrik »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #63
Waterfall wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China puts their own citizens in concentration camps. They're using machine learning to generate social scores. If you don't like America or the UK, you can leave. Try doing that in China. Dying in a free zone is preferable to the enslavement that the Chinese are subjected to. Freedom has a price, and it's not racist to not like these horrible cultural values or to go against them.

> China puts their own citizens in concentration camps. The usual counterpoint here is the US incarceration rate.

[flagged]

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#110

Post by yodelshady »

rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

You can't encrypt "metadata" that the machine needs to know to do its job, and with enough of that, you can de-anonymise any public posters. And you'll have metadata on (some of) their contacts too.

Plus, if it's your tower, you can just switch it off, at an opportune moment.

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