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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#61

Post by dx87 »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation besides "but what about what the rest of the world is doing", then why bother to comment? I don't know why any post mentioning China makes you people come out of the woodwork to argure that the rest of the world is just as bad.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#62

Post by einpoklum »

bluerobotcat wrote: post #46
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

I don't understand how you can give 'American cops routinely kill people' as an example of human rights violations that are being ignored. Is change lacking? Yes. Is there outrage? Also yes. Of course, had you were to make the point that Western politicians are complete hypocrites then I would wholeheartedly agree. Although, I also don't think that's a uniquely Western phenomenon.

When mass uprisings are necessary for even a serious discussion of the problem (intention to resolve it is nowhere in sight) - then, yes, killing by cops is being ignored and has been ignored.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#63

Post by MaxBarraclough »

Waterfall wrote: post #51
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

China puts their own citizens in concentration camps. They're using machine learning to generate social scores. If you don't like America or the UK, you can leave. Try doing that in China. Dying in a free zone is preferable to the enslavement that the Chinese are subjected to. Freedom has a price, and it's not racist to not like these horrible cultural values or to go against them.

> China puts their own citizens in concentration camps.

The usual counterpoint here is the US incarceration rate.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#64

Post by emptyfile »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

iRaq? What's that? Some kind of new social network? Never heard of her.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#65

Post by room271 »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

I'm very sympathetic to your criticisms of the UK/US, but I think you are taking for granted the great many freedoms you enjoy (I assume you are from one of these countries but apologies if not) and are being naive (or just perhaps it's driven by cynicism) over the very real differences here.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#66

Post by throwawaybab323 »

ardit33 wrote: post #45
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

[flagged]

Your point is? Every nation does this with their indigenous population. Yet you don't seem to be outraged at the fact native americans are raped and murdered almost everyday in america.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#67

Post by rich_sasha »

eggsnbacon1 wrote: post #53
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

[flagged]

With zero sympathy for Chinese ethnic cleansing, Nazi concentration camps were perhaps a different league. Maybe people never even got to stay there: unloaded at the rail terminal, ushered into gas chambers, then burned in the crematoria.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#68

Post by Karunamon »

einpoklum wrote: post #56
room271 wrote: post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

"Proper civil society and human rights" - like the ones afforded to Julian Assange? Or the treatment of the Grenfell tower victims' families? Glass houses etc.

Yes, nobody's hands are clean here.

There is, however, a pretty big gulf between the stuff the US has done and engaging in ethnic cleansing and running concentration camps as a matter of policy.

The difference is massive, and well known. Please don't try to falsely equate the two.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#69

Post by jaekash »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #30

I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people. Yet, how many people have died in Hong Kong because of their protests? The notion that China lacks 'proper civil society' is in my mind rooted in a western sense of orientalism and good old fashioned racism.…

> I'm constantly seeing westerners whine about Chinese human rights violations while simultaneously ignoring the HR violations occurring everywhere else, especially in the west. American cops routinely kill people.

There has been protests for more than a month in the USA and the west because one black man was murdered by police. The police officer that murdered him will be charged and brought to justice.

There has been nowhere near this level of outrage against the actions of China, and nobody will bring the perpetrators there to justice.

To suggests that HR violations in the west is being ignored is laughable and dishonest and is evidence of your ulterior motives.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#70

Post by bluerobotcat »

einpoklum wrote: post #62
bluerobotcat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you can give 'American cops routinely kill people' as an example of human rights violations that are being ignored. Is change lacking? Yes. Is there outrage? Also yes. Of course, had you were to make the point that Western politicians are complete hypocrites then I would wholeheartedly agree. Although, I also don't think that's a uniquely Western phenomenon.

When mass uprisings are necessary for even a serious discussion of the problem (intention to resolve it is nowhere in sight) - then, yes, killing by cops is being ignored and has been ignored.

I strongly disagree. If you care enough about an issue to repeatedly go outside during a pandemic and protest, then you are not ignoring it.

The set of 'Westerners' does not exclude the protesters.

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