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Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

newyorker.com

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Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#561

Post by tripletao »

adamsea wrote: post #556
tripletao wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, and I also routinely read both the NYT and the New Yorker. I don't mean to suggest that most or all of their reporters want to use the tools of their trade to harm perceived opponents, just that some non-negligible subset do (as is inevitable in a large group), and their managers seem disinclined to hold them back (which seems new and scary to me). The personal consequences if you meet such a reporter seem po…

It just seems like a lot of conclusions to draw around an article that hasn't been released yet and which no one has read. Plus, what if the New Yorker article got something wrong (not necessarily thru negligence)? Or what if the NY Times article changes between now and its publication (if it's published)? What if Alexander misunderstood something? Or, what if there are circumstances which people have not chosen to p…

I also appreciate the response, and I certainly agree that no one except the NYT reporter knew what would be published (and not even they knew what the ultimate consequences would be for Alexander). But since the only way for Alexander to know for sure would have been for him to wait and see if he gets fired, I can't blame him for acting speculatively.

Maybe people respond in proportion to their self-assessed risk that they themselves would end up in Alexander's predicament? That probably explains some of the left/right split on this and similar topics. I just can't help thinking that those with views broadly similar to an average NYT reporter's are underestimating that personal risk, given that: (a) the boundaries of acceptable thought may change quickly and unpredictably; and (b) a much greater fraction of their personal and professional network is likely to come along with the mob, increasing the risk that public censure has consequences to their daily life. "Cancel culture" poses much less risk to a Breitbart reporter (who's already beyond the pale) than to a broadly liberal writer who misses or disregards the latest change in that boundary.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#562

Post by motohagiography »

adamsea wrote: post #552
motohagiography wrote: post #95

The entire piece is an expression of an ideology digesting a perceived threat to itself and producing antibodies in the form of snide, cognitively limiting tropes. As an example of watching the beast in action, this is a truly valuable specimen. Highly recommend reading it as an example of the form.

FYI I feel like the language you use is kind of dehumanizing - “the beast in action”, viruses and antibodies when talking about people and what they write, etc. Not saying that was your intent but wanted to share my impression. Don’t know if it’s just me or if others feels similarly.

When you look in to what that means, dehumanizing seems like a pretty serious accusation. While I can't help with your appeal for sympathy from others, I can offer that this post was about the logic of ideas, abstracted from the people who write them. Doing so treats the people you disagree with as equals, which is about as humanizing as it gets.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#563

Post by heavyset_go »

harry8 wrote: post #427
Barrin92 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

type "scott alexander slate star codex" into google and his real name, plus several pictures of him are on the first page of the image results. Alternatively, given that he's made his profession as well as place of residence known, looking for psychiatrists named scott alexander in that region also returns an official result. If it took you days to figure that out I'm sorry to say you don't have a future as a private…

Google is not a static thing. Results a few weeks ago may be nothing much like results now. (If it took a rando on the internet to point that out to you you don't have ... No let's leave that kind of garbage out, yeah?)

The guy republished his own blog posts under his real name in print and online publications. If it's a "secret", it's a very open secret, even from the author himself.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#564

Post by ForHackernews »

resters wrote: post #490
elipsey wrote: post #55

Sigh. I think this article is holding Scott, and a core constituency of posters and meet up people, guilty by association with every rando on the internet, and also about half of the celebrities in the Bay area. "War against the media" strikes me as ridiculous hyperbole in this context. I have met some of these people in real life, and none of them expressed that attitude to me, nor any kind of utopian superiority. I…

> guilty by association True. It's peculiar how a nuanced presentation of Scott's blog and the values of rationalist culture are not sufficient, and a crude description of Scott's purity test results is offered to readers, likely so Lewis-Kraus can avoid worry about being cancelled. Do readers of the New Yorker really need such blatant reassurance that Scott is not a Trump supporter, and that he was actually a vocal…

C'mon, the New Yorker has been unusually good on this topic, even skewering a few sacred cows here and there: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/30/the-new-activi...

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#565

Post by ForHackernews »

fmajid wrote: post #175
cwp wrote: post #26

This is fascinating. It's a New York take on the Bay Area take on New York. It's the Media take on the Tech take on Media. It's illuminating, and frustrating. I keep looking for some reflection, some attempt to learn something from another point of view. I'll have to read it again more closely.

Scott Alexander only recently moved to the Bay Area, and as a clinician, he is very unlikely to be associated with any tech companies, although many techies read his blog, of course. The NYT behavior here was despicable. Not quite Wen-Ho Lee yellow-baiting despicable, but despicable nonetheless. The New Yorker shares the same envious hatred of tech companies most of the New York media scene seems to evince, not surpr…

Writers who write for The New Yorker are not worried about their livelihoods evaporating because local papers are going bust any more than tenured professors at Harvard are endangered by funding cuts at Directional Statename University.

I keep seeing variations of your take, where techie types are convinced that journos have a chip on their shoulder. But the genuinely elite media types (in contrast to out-of-work former gawker writers) probably don't give two shits about us. We're just a bunch of nerds with nothing meaningful to add to the discourse.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#566

Post by resters »

ForHackernews wrote: post #564
resters wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guilty by association True. It's peculiar how a nuanced presentation of Scott's blog and the values of rationalist culture are not sufficient, and a crude description of Scott's purity test results is offered to readers, likely so Lewis-Kraus can avoid worry about being cancelled. Do readers of the New Yorker really need such blatant reassurance that Scott is not a Trump supporter, and that he was actually a vocal…

C'mon, the New Yorker has been unusually good on this topic, even skewering a few sacred cows here and there: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/30/the-new-activi...

Perhaps, but can we honestly believe that if Lewis-Kraus had omitted the extra verbose reassurances that Scott isn't a Trump supporter and within hours of the article's publication there were calls for the New Yorker to fire him, that the New Yorker's editors would defend the more nuanced treatment?

Seemingly, Lewis-Kraus does not believe this. I wonder if the extra verbiage was his own decision or the result of editorial feedback.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#567

Post by ForHackernews »

resters wrote: post #566
ForHackernews wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon, the New Yorker has been unusually good on this topic, even skewering a few sacred cows here and there: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/30/the-new-activi...

Perhaps, but can we honestly believe that if Lewis-Kraus had omitted the extra verbose reassurances that Scott isn't a Trump supporter and within hours of the article's publication there were calls for the New Yorker to fire him, that the New Yorker's editors would defend the more nuanced treatment? Seemingly, Lewis-Kraus does not believe this. I wonder if the extra verbiage was his own decision or the result of edit…

I guess you can believe whatever you want, but it's equally possible that the author is trying to (accurately) emphasize to his readership that Scott Alexander isn't a member of the alt-right/scientific racism segment of the self-proclaimed Rationalist community.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#568

Post by FancyPete »

Newyorker's hot takes are lower quality than it's core offering of slowed down reporting about something big. This is no exception. The concluding paragraph seems the most telling. The author seems to simply throw his hands up and say, 'I don't know, this is all about power or media or culture or something.'

I think people here are looking for a deep read of this, but my read is that the assignment didn't interest the reporter and he just tried to rush it.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#569

Post by adamsea »

motohagiography wrote: post #562
adamsea wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI I feel like the language you use is kind of dehumanizing - “the beast in action”, viruses and antibodies when talking about people and what they write, etc. Not saying that was your intent but wanted to share my impression. Don’t know if it’s just me or if others feels similarly.

When you look in to what that means, dehumanizing seems like a pretty serious accusation. While I can't help with your appeal for sympathy from others, I can offer that this post was about the logic of ideas, abstracted from the people who write them. Doing so treats the people you disagree with as equals, which is about as humanizing as it gets.

I think it’s a spectrum and you are correct that on the far end of that spectrum is definitely some very bad stuff.

Which is not where I think your comment is at all :).

But because it’s a spectrum I think and hope my sharing how some of the language in your comment struck me is helpful.

Lol the irony is I think that “the logic of ideas, abstracted away from the people that write them”, is in a literal sense, de-humanizing ;).

Worth thinking about imho since the ideas we are talking about are about language and people and societies :).

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#570

Post by [deleted] »

tripletao wrote: post #561
adamsea wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just seems like a lot of conclusions to draw around an article that hasn't been released yet and which no one has read. Plus, what if the New Yorker article got something wrong (not necessarily thru negligence)? Or what if the NY Times article changes between now and its publication (if it's published)? What if Alexander misunderstood something? Or, what if there are circumstances which people have not chosen to p…

I also appreciate the response, and I certainly agree that no one except the NYT reporter knew what would be published (and not even they knew what the ultimate consequences would be for Alexander). But since the only way for Alexander to know for sure would have been for him to wait and see if he gets fired, I can't blame him for acting speculatively. Maybe people respond in proportion to their self-assessed risk th…

[deleted]
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