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Google to Invest $10B in India

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Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#291
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a pretty clear difference, to me, between saying "this practice is obviously wrong, but technically legal--and we should work to change that," and lauding the company's actions as "good accounting," scolding people for confusing the act of successfully evading paying taxes with "tax evasion" as though this particular bit of legal jargon were shedding light on anything for non-accountants, and carrying water…

I don't think there's much that's 'obviously' right or wrong in economic policies or tax law, and certainly companies that would fare worse under your proposed changes are the wrong target for urges of change. Or any legislation really, that's the point of case law, a particular circumstance wasn't anticipated, so there's some interpretation and umming and ahing, and thenceforth that example's able to be used to stee…

The fact that for you "should online companies pay taxes?" is a subject worthy of debate indicates such a vast gulf between our positions that there's really nothing to discuss, I think. Certainly the idea that Google is not "in" any particular country seems pretty strange to me, but if that is indeed your position then clearly it should pay tax in all of those countries, not none.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#292
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all pay bribes one way or another though. It's impossible to do business in the Third World otherwise. It's probably some sort of a lobbyist or a "subsidiary" or something along those lines. I know it's hard for an American to believe, but you just don't get to do business at all if you don't pay - large part of why I live and do business in the United States where one doesn't have to do it.

Some countries. India is in question here. India has problems but they are trying to clean up and that means that you both have a shot at not paying bribes and a real risk if you do.

> India is in question here.

Such naivete brings a tear to my eye. How do you think the government officials are able to lead such extravagant lifestyles?

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#293
post #228
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mukhesh Ambani who's got a good connect with the current ruling Government To be fair, Mukesh has got good connections everywhere. He is India's most powerful person. Amitabh and the Shahrukh (some of the world's richest actors, both half billionaires) both volunteered as servers at his daughters wedding as a show of appreciation. If a man can command the most powerful of his country to such level of willful subser…

Random language usage question: in India, if someone is referred to as a billionaire, would that be in terms of rupees or dollars? (1 billion INR is ~13.3 million USD) Or does it essentially never come up because a typical Indian would use lakh/crore instead? Is there's something like a "lakh croreaire"?

If you see a billion being used it is usually the Western style. So when you say someone is a billionaire it is in USD. If you want an Indian take on it, it would be: Lakhpati and Crorepati.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are trying to argue both sides here. If the government is not afraid of doing shady stuff, like the Chinese government, then it is free to do anything to any billionaire, and being rich doesn't get anyone any power, like China. If the government respects the rule of law, and doesn't do any extra judicial stuff, even then it makes sense to not let a competing foreign power like China be a stakeholder in yo…

If the Indian government is not afraid of contravening Indian laws, it can grab Chinese shares anyway. If it wants to maintain the appearance of being lawful and fair, there is already an Enemy Property Act, 1968 to more or less support grabbing Chinese investments (perhaps with an amendment or two). Under what pretence would they grab Ambani's property? There is Eminent Domain in India, but only AFAIK for land owner…

> there is already an Enemy Property Act, 1968 to more or less support grabbing Chinese investments

No. The Enemy Property Act, 1968 is specifically made for Pakistani Nationals after the 1965 Indo-Pak War. It is not generic. To declare China as an Enemy a proper War should take place between India and China. Is China ready for such a misadventure?

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with Mukhesh Ambani or his reputation, but sounds like he's India's version of China's Jack Ma? Jack Ma and Alibaba came to the forefront due in part to his connections to the Chinese government. On the topic itself, it's unclear what Google's intentions are and how they could benefit from such an investment. $10B is not a big sum so is the purpose altruistic or as grease for other purposes?

Companies aren't altruistic, their only purpose is to provide value to shareholders. That doesn't mean this is a greasing, it could just be google wanting more people connected to the internet so more people use their products.

> Companies aren't altruistic, their only purpose is to provide value to shareholders.

Companies do whatever their owners tell them to do. What you are talking about one specific model of what some people think they should do and what purpose they should serve in society. A very popular and possibly even 'default' model, but only one of many.

https://blog.corplaw.ie/bid/317212/Shareholder-Stakeholder-T...

etc

that said, assuming altruism here even if there aren't immediately obvious benefits to the company would probably be a bit naive.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#296
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Indian customer is always a price conscious one though. Like it or not, we are that way. Remember those days people used to make pre agreed arrangements, and just make the communication acknowledgements though missed calls? So eventually if you want to be profitable and sell more services, you have to offer a good price. It's just the way it is. I even know people who look at fares and then decide if they want t…

> Remember those days people used to make pre agreed arrangements, and just make the communication acknowledgements though missed calls? Can you elaborate how did that work? I never heard about this method

We called this “beep”ing in Romania. Apparently it was widespread across developing contries [1]

[1] https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article-pdf/13/1/1/22316427/jj...

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is more democratic than even USA. Case in point Arvind Kejriwal and multiple such leaders. Anyone can form a party and contest the elections and actually have a fighting chance to govern India, can the same be said about the USA?

Maybe there is a case to be made here, and maybe you can make a convincing one given more time. However, as it stands there's a world of difference between the rise to (local) power of someone like Kejriwal and the claim that India is more democratic than the US. That is a rather specific feature that, even if true, is neither sufficient nor required to be democratic.

Why is the burden of proof on the poster arguing that India is more democratic rather than the side arguing that US is more democratic?

India is the world's largest democracy, has a multi-party system, has had prime ministers from different religions, and both men and women top leaders. The US on the other hand has only had Christian leaders (4 have technically not specified), and all men. It's also a 2-party system. The burden of proof here for this statement needs to be on the one claiming that US is more democratic.

The greatest challenge for the rise of India is the colonialistic mindset of many (but not all) Indians today. Hold yourselves equal and ask for you what you rightfully deserve.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#298
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there is a case to be made here, and maybe you can make a convincing one given more time. However, as it stands there's a world of difference between the rise to (local) power of someone like Kejriwal and the claim that India is more democratic than the US. That is a rather specific feature that, even if true, is neither sufficient nor required to be democratic.

Why is the burden of proof on the poster arguing that India is more democratic rather than the side arguing that US is more democratic? India is the world's largest democracy, has a multi-party system, has had prime ministers from different religions, and both men and women top leaders. The US on the other hand has only had Christian leaders (4 have technically not specified), and all men. It's also a 2-party system.…

> Why is the burden of proof on the poster arguing that India is more democratic rather than the side arguing that US is more democratic?

Because they made the claim, and I found this claim more unconventional and potentially more interesting to draw out than the claims in the comment they replied to. There was no conscious hidden agenda here. If someone (on whatever side of this discussion) makes a novel claim, they should be expected to provide a reasonable rationale, or otherwise expect that it will be questioned or just disregarded.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#299
post #3

There's been a recent surge in American companies investing in India primarily through Reliance Jio (owned by Mukhesh Ambani who's got a good connect with the current ruling Government). It's been spiking since the Anti-China sentiment led Buy and Use 'Made in India' cries. Government has even asked eCom Flipkart and Amazon to display Country of Origin for each product. With all these, This investment from Google see…

India's potential is limited only by the incompetence of Indian government (irrespective of who is in power). Too many shady powers being involved here pulling the string. India's data localization law was in fact lobbied for by the real estate firms as they wanted foreign companies to be arm twisted into investing in real estate in India. You can search news for who benefits from this sort of wasteful expenditure.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#300
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now

It has been about 3 years atleast since Jio has paid plans, and things are still way way cheaper. Even if the prices double, they will be way cheaper than what they were.

Firms will just keep removing plans that help the poorest users as they work to get ARPU higher. This has to happen anyway because the major firms are under huge mountains of debt.

They cant be allowed to fall, because then the only name in town is reliance, which would be even worse.

What people are forgetting is that 1) Firms already raised prices and 2) that its not about data.

Its about a competitive market. We used to have this, and it even created the thriving VAS industry for a while. That died because of classic rent seeking behavior by telecoms over the VAS firms, killing that entire engine of ingenuity.

Telecom industries are know for bad results (see America, or Australia) when its not structured correctly.

Everyone who is focusing just on prices is unaware of the number of failures and missed opportunities resulting from bad telecom market structures.

Take Net neutrality, given the telcos way, it would have long been lost and rent seeking structures would have grown on top of it - it would recreate the bundled world of cable television over the net.

This means that poor users would never get a chance to look at products which compete purely on features and value - they would look at products that are "Jio Free" or "Vodafone plus", where having a hook up with the ISP is more important than features.

Looking at it in terms of "hey prices are low" is missing the great risk this industry is in.

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