Google to Invest $10B in India • Hacker News Board

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#261

Post by Jweb_Guru » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #257

izacus wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He" is not a for-profit corporation, but a human person. Corporations aren't people no matter how much dollars go into PR efforts to tell people otherwise. As such, them not paying their part to the society is damaging no matter how many personal appeals you do. Please stop humanizing corporations to make them get away with not paying their part.

I'm not humanising corporations, I hate it when they make matey communications and kick myself if I catch myself referring to a (singular) company as 'they'. But the terms avoidance and evasion are the same for corporate taxation as they are for personal tax. The desire to not pay more than necessary is also the same, and that seems entirely rational. If you want a company to pay more tax (and it's not presently brea…

There is a pretty clear difference, to me, between saying "this practice is obviously wrong, but technically legal--and we should work to change that," and lauding the company's actions as "good accounting," scolding people for confusing the act of successfully evading paying taxes with "tax evasion" as though this particular bit of legal jargon were shedding light on anything for non-accountants, and carrying water for companies that are not mere passive actors who benefit from a bizarre tax code with inexplicable but convenient loopholes, but rather actively lobby for tax laws to be changed to benefit them (something I, as an individual without billions of dollars to my name, could not effectively do even if I wanted to).

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#262

Post by screye » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

paulpan wrote: post #242

screye wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mukhesh Ambani who's got a good connect with the current ruling Government To be fair, Mukesh has got good connections everywhere. He is India's most powerful person. Amitabh and the Shahrukh (some of the world's richest actors, both half billionaires) both volunteered as servers at his daughters wedding as a show of appreciation. If a man can command the most powerful of his country to such level of willful subser…

I'm not familiar with Mukhesh Ambani or his reputation, but sounds like he's India's version of China's Jack Ma? Jack Ma and Alibaba came to the forefront due in part to his connections to the Chinese government. On the topic itself, it's unclear what Google's intentions are and how they could benefit from such an investment. $10B is not a big sum so is the purpose altruistic or as grease for other purposes?

Not really. Mukesh Ambani was born a billionaire. His father was India's biggest power and oil baron.

Afaik, the Ambani dynasty of 2 generations has been India's richest for about 30 years now.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#263

Post by screye » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #110

seemslegit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China hasn't "blown" anything - it is set to compete with US head to head on the world stage not with India over US investments.

I'd go further and say there's nobody that can compete with China at this stage. Sure, some US companies are doing tactical investments here and there, meanwhile the Chinese government is plowing billions into basic infra like railways, ports and roads across swathes of Asia and Africa, and then its companies follow.

> plowing billions into basic infra like railways, ports and roads across swathes of Asia and Africa, and then its companies follow.

That hasn't worked out too well for them.

The reason no other country wanted to fund these projects, is because they have a history of defaulting on those loans. Additionally, these projects are a wound that doesn't stop bleeding. China has to continue pouring money in them for maintenance and upkeep too.

Unless China's goal is geopolitical neo-colonialism, I do not see any of their international infrastructure projects paying off any time soon.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#264

Post by bg24 » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #209

screye wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mukhesh Ambani who's got a good connect with the current ruling Government To be fair, Mukesh has got good connections everywhere. He is India's most powerful person. Amitabh and the Shahrukh (some of the world's richest actors, both half billionaires) both volunteered as servers at his daughters wedding as a show of appreciation. If a man can command the most powerful of his country to such level of willful subser…

> volunteered as servers at his daughters wedding ... subservience I don't know about you, but when I hear "working as a server at a wedding attended by many powerful people", I don't think "subservience", I think "unique opportunity to make connections, and to potentially snoop insider information."

Well said.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#265

Post by jagged-chisel » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

patrickaljord wrote: post #260

OJFord wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No tax evasion is ever permitted, by definition. (Tax owed and not paid.) Finding ways to reduce tax liability (rational) is called tax avoidance . (Tax not owed, and obviously not paid.)

In France and many other EU country, tax avoidance is illegal.

So, if I decide (while living in France) to avoid paying so much tax by, say, making less money, I'm now a criminal?

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#266

Post by blueblisters » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #6

amrrs wrote: post #3

There's been a recent surge in American companies investing in India primarily through Reliance Jio (owned by Mukhesh Ambani who's got a good connect with the current ruling Government). It's been spiking since the Anti-China sentiment led Buy and Use 'Made in India' cries. Government has even asked eCom Flipkart and Amazon to display Country of Origin for each product. With all these, This investment from Google see…

I think this rather shows the continued weakness of India. On one hand, China and nationalism are used as a tool by the Indian government (not least while the Covid-19 situation goes pear-shaped), on the other hand they are at least as dependent on US companies, if not more. I think India should rather reflect on China's industrial strategy, including investments in infrastructure and fostering the development of nat…

> I think India should rather reflect on China's industrial strategy, including investments in infrastructure and fostering the development of national giants when India is lacking on both fronts.

I think it's much easier to make massive investments in infrastructure when you have a current account surplus. The Indian government is trying to push the industry to be more export focused but years of protectionism and import-substitution norms have made the industry less competitive.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#267

Post by WBWBWB1010s » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

236dev wrote: post #244

sunseb wrote: post #118

Why not invest in the US and the black community?

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I feel the same way about h1b visas. I wish instead of importing cheap labor we spent extra money and trained people in the African American community that don't have as many opportunities.

- How much did america gain from colonial behavior done in India. Remember capital flows, India --> Colonial UK --> 13 Colonies -> Infrastructure

Not saying your wrong, but your point just comes to "who got screwed over more" it's not productive to have that debate, because you might ask well Fly Down To the Worst Third World Countries who were hurt most by America, or prior colonialist

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#268

Post by xmprt » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

mycodebreaks wrote: post #225

viklove wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not know of Amitabh and the Shahrukh -- they're not some smalltime actors that need to get a leg up. This would be like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt offering to be servers at Jeff Bezos' daughters wedding. It's absurdly subservient.

Do not ignore cultural differences. If you see such an activity as a job, then you would arrive at a conclusion like yours. In India, it's common for hosts to serve food as a sign of respect to their guests. Close friends and family of hosts also join. This only showed the closeness of the relationships among Mukesh and other stars. Seeing it as a subservient act isn't accurate, no big star would sign up if it were s…

To give another example, often times, the servers for these weddings aren't people you pay but rather your close friends and family.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#269

Post by intended » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

masalachai wrote: post #246

intended wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not the competitive days, those are pretty much classic examples of the chilling effect on our market after the SC forcing a re-auction. An auction exposes market pricing information which was hidden before. In case people aren't aware, the Indian mobile sector was one of the cheapest and most pioneering markets of its time. People created the 0 cost phone call - farmers and mobile users could give a missed…

> In case people aren't aware, the Indian mobile sector was one of the cheapest and most pioneering markets of its time. Not sure in what way you mean pioneering but it was definitely not the cheapest! Everything cost money. Text messages, phone calls, data, roaming between states, out-of-state phone calls. Everything. All this in addition to the cost of the cell phone itself - no bundled offers with phone like AT&T…

You can check what ARPU and per individual costs were in the world comapred to India historically for calls. India has always been one of the cheapest places to have calls, and one of the lowest ARPU in any market - and it managed to get multiple mobile phones per person and has a thriving telecom market.

The 0 cost phone call is an example of the market working well - people at the bottom of the pyramid have no money to spend, and given what ARPU was, expecting even lower prices is the stuff of fantasies.

This is innovation at work. I don't know what people are expecting when what they had was already impressive for the time.

Re: Google to Invest $10B in India

#270

Post by dboat » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

freyr wrote: post #235

izacus wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He" is not a for-profit corporation, but a human person. Corporations aren't people no matter how much dollars go into PR efforts to tell people otherwise. As such, them not paying their part to the society is damaging no matter how many personal appeals you do. Please stop humanizing corporations to make them get away with not paying their part.

It seems like the point is that we’d be naive to expect a corporation, presumably governed by rational actors working to maximize profits, to pay more taxes than the minimum.

Regular citizens do not have the opportunity to successfully lobby for tax avoidance loopholes to be created and maintained for their benefit, so responding to a point about unequal advantages to corporations with a comment about rational accounting is unhelpful.

Is your position that corporations don't have an unjust advantage, or that the unjust advantage is okay and people shouldn't complain about it?