Live data from Hacker News

The stock market and economy have parted ways

washingtonpost.com

201–210 of 542 posts

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#201
post #86

For the last week or so I’ve been buying ATM QQQ call spreads and rolling them up and out as they become ITM. I’m up 100% in one week, this is silly.

Mind expanding the acronyms and explaining what exactly you've done? I'm still an investing novice.

Not OP, but anyway these are the terms you want to search:

- ATM: At The Money

- ITM: In The Money

- QQQ: Invesco QQQ Trust

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are absolutely correct and the reason that the stock market is being so weird is quite simply "what else are we doing to do with that money?" The solution for individuals: cash, gold, options, etc, aren't viable solutions for institutional investors. Imagine that you're in charge of a $1 billion fund, what are you going to do? You can't put that into gold, cash or treasury notes. But all sectors are affec…

Today was one of the few times I saw "social unrest" mentioned in this context. I suspect that will happen a lot more over the next few years. The markets are a wobbling shitpile of unpayable debt just waiting to collapse. That was already true before Covid, but Covid has nailed the coffin shut while the corpse is still alive. I wouldn't be surprised if the Fed is knowingly goosing the twitching body because the alte…

Fed will continue printing until Boomers die off... there is a lot of wealth locked up in 401k that needs to be disbursed.

This block votes and they vote often and if their little pennies are threatened, they will vote people out.

Edit: If you think these market rises are anything other than a way for the rich to rinse their money before the market bombs, I have a bridge to sell you, it's very pretty.

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has he heard of Tether? It might be worth telling him that the entire cryptocurrency market it being propped up by 10 billion “dollars” of what is essentially Monopoly money.

Market cap of Bitcoin is: 117.81 billion U.S. Market cap of Tether USDT: $9.16 billion Tether would account for 7.8% of all Bitcoin. Not sure if that would count as being propped up. It's significant but not entirely propped up, there is a ton of real money in there too.

>...there is a ton of real money in there too.

There is zero money "in there" market cap for a non-backed currency is meaningless value. No amount of bitcoin buying will ever put money "into" anything. The money goes to whoever sells its just a trade.

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go back and forth on gold a lot. I keep a very small amount of my money in gold, but I’m literally thinking “if things really get down to it, I can trade this for food” But that type of mental exercise does not work well for many people. Especially imagining a system where our fiat currency is effectively useless.

In the Argentinian collapse, many preppers found their gold coins useless to trade. No one would give them anything close to fair value for it because no black market seller was able to assay it to verify that it's real gold. Junk gold like jewelry is what really moved, and preppers switched to hoarding rings and necklaces and whatnot.

Interesting insight. I always thought gold/silver coins would be more useful than jewelry.

I mean, how can you verify if a ring or necklace is actual gold, but not be able to verify a coin?

I guess using the age-old method of density perhaps? do you know what did process to exchange jewelry looked like?

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are absolutely correct and the reason that the stock market is being so weird is quite simply "what else are we doing to do with that money?" The solution for individuals: cash, gold, options, etc, aren't viable solutions for institutional investors. Imagine that you're in charge of a $1 billion fund, what are you going to do? You can't put that into gold, cash or treasury notes. But all sectors are affec…

Is part of the issue that there is just too much money has been printed and hoarded and its creating some weird effects? The government has been printing money for a long time, to stimulate the economy, provide spending money, etc. Due to 80/20 rule, rich get richer effects, etc, a large portion of money the government prints ends up in the hands of a relatively small group who doesn't spend it but rather tries to in…

Printing money has recently shown to have little impact on inflation. This is likely due in part to lack of consumer spending (can't inflate prices if nobody is buying it anyway) as well as spreading the USD across billions of people in dozens of interconnected economies that base off the dollar.

The recent $5 trillion injection from the Fed (buying bad debt/assets) and Treasury (stimulus/PPP) may simply show that we could afford universal healthcare and a bunch of other programs that cost $$$. Now is the time to spend that money and, at least it appears, avoid some long term costs. I'd argue the benefits of things like expanding education, investing in mental and physical health, and doing more to support our youth will have a much greater return than potential long term inflation or other issues from the $5 trillion.

I commented more on this last week here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23778819

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#206
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or real estate circa 2006. When your cab driver starts offering unsolicited stock tips, that's the time to get out.

Isn't it the same when people on Hacker News start telling you to exit the market.

Yeah, at this most recent COVID bottom, HN was saying that buying was like catching a falling knife, that the average recession dropped n% more, that it was going to get worse. I am very glad I ignored HN commentary.

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#207
post #6

The amount of friends I have that are out of work and posting screenshots of robinhood on ig and snap right now is wild. This feels like crypto 2017 all over again. I suppose the difference is there is a real market under it all and retail traders aren't entirely driving this, but they're the ones left holding the bag when the curtain drops.

One of my unemployed friends just told me he's putting everything into bitcoin.

He might be right. There is a considerable work being done currently on Bitcoin to improve it's transaction throughput, speed, privacy and fees. Once it's done, in a year or two, Bitcoin will have great utility as a modern form of money.

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#208
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loaning money should not be done to make money, it's parasitic. It should purely be a charitable contribution without expecting a return. If the loanee decides, out of his or her own goodness to return more money than they took, then that's up to them. Now the obvious and direct effect of this is that people will generally not loan their money. This is a good thing. The follow up is that they will invest their money…

But here we’re talking about equity (stocks), not bonds (loans). So the interest isn’t coming from loaning, it’s coming from investing.

When I say interest I mean money for money transactions, like savings accounts in banks or bonds where the return is set ahead of time and is practically guaranteed (i.e. usury). Investing is fine since it can incur a gain or loss.

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#209
Original thinking and therefore probably wrong, but perhaps interesting:

A more precise explanation than FOMO is that the stock market is simply a form of poker.

In poker, the cards themselves have zero value, they are simply a tool used to determine a winner.

While stocks may have some intrinsic value, it is commonly acknowledged that their value as assets is substantially lower than their stock market price. Moreover companies continue to buy their own stocks further reducing the value of stocks as assets.

Unlike the card game of poker, in stock market poker the players share the pot. This simple fact explains why there is a relentless pressure to increase the size of the pot.

In 2017 the richest 10% of Americans owned 84% of stocks. These are the major poker players. They have the resources to absorb major losses and then simply bid up the next hand.

Any small players (yes that means you and me) can easily lose their shirt in a down turn as we do not have reserve assets or other means (hedge funds) and are not able to participate in the next hand.

Many investment funds, pension funds and others fraudulently present stocks as assets and participation in the stock market as "investment".

It is the equivalent of asking that people invest in poker game by representing that the cards themselves have value. If participants in pension funds and retirement plans begin to recognize this fraud this may cause the stock market to collapse. However even this is unlikely. Poker games don't collapse, people just stop playing.

Just a thought.

Re: The stock market and economy have parted ways

#210
post #173
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loaning money should not be done to make money, it's parasitic. It should purely be a charitable contribution without expecting a return. If the loanee decides, out of his or her own goodness to return more money than they took, then that's up to them. Now the obvious and direct effect of this is that people will generally not loan their money. This is a good thing. The follow up is that they will invest their money…

> It should purely be a charitable contribution without expecting a return. > Now the obvious and direct effect of this is that people will generally not loan their money. This is a good thing. The follow up is that they will invest their money in hopefully legitimate and moral ways. What kind of investor are you referring to that doesn't expect returns? Even "social impact" investors expect returns in reputation, or…

You can expect returns, but not fix them ahead of time as what people do with interest bearing loans (i.e. usury). Loaning money for money is parasitic and immoral. Investing that can incur a profit or a loss is fine in general.
Post reply on HN