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Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

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121–130 of 147 posts

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#121
post #9

Robert Miles has an interesting response to the claim that corporations are AIs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5pUA3LsEaw To paraphrase: yes, corporations function as agents, but their maximum performance is limited by the capabilities of their employees. A corporate AI may have a much broader set of skills than any single person, and may be able to tackle many concurrent tasks, but as an "intelligent agent" its d…

I don't think the comparison was to AI as a super intelligence. AI doesn't have to be a super intelligence to be AI or to be dangerous.

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Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#122
Reductio ad deus is a recurring pattern, or at least it was, when we look hopefully into a radical future.

Radical political movements develop messianic themes, whether or not they rejected pre-existing ideas of god. Modern futurists are distinctly messianic. Remember also that (radical) 19th century politics kind of were futurist movements. "Singularity" is an on-the-nose example.

^Radical meaning "want or expect major societal change."

I think we're better at predicting the future than we give ourselves credit for. We're just bad at distinguishing profound from banal in those futures. 100 years ago, economists and intellectuals (famously keynes) used their projections of productivity, technology & such to predict a leisure society. 15hr workweeks, etc.

They were right about almost everything, except the conclusions. Productivity, global trade, technology, even peace... eventually. Even with the benefit of hindsight, very few modern economists reach profound conclusions about the mistakes of their forebears.

The way we usually get the future wrong is "you were right, an yet..."

The cultural element is the wild card. In 1990 you could have predicted 2020's radically changed landscape of media, social media, communication technologies & such. You probably couldn't have predicted the memetic influence on, the economy, education, social life, etc... At least, people usually don't predict these well.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#123
post #89
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the comparison was to AI as a super intelligence. AI doesn't have to be a super intelligence to be AI or to be dangerous.

In fact sub-par artificial intelligence is probably at least as dangerous as sub-par human intelligence, when we let it loose with significant power/authority in the real world. (for supporting evidence to this claim, see "high frequency trading", "self driving cars", and "the leader of the free world" )

Sub-par intelligence crashes some cars, causes some wars. Superintelligence turns our whole forward light-cone into paperclips; it's a bit worse.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#124
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes an ideal corporation in the physics sense - real world ones have "corruption" in the form of their employees engaging in their own agenda. Take sexual harassment, passing up talent from bigotry, and office politics. They actively harm the profitability and yet they exist at all levels. The incentives are fundamentally what shape the systems including the corporations. Blaming corporations alone is a simp…

> They actively harm the profitability and yet they exist at all levels. > The incentives are fundamentally what shape the systems including the corporations. These are key observations, and sadly I suspect there's a Prisoner's Dilemma style thing going on which makes corruption, sexual harassment, bigotry, and office politics somehow "rational" and individually maximising behaviours (for corporations, as well as the…

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Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#125
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes an ideal corporation in the physics sense - real world ones have "corruption" in the form of their employees engaging in their own agenda. Take sexual harassment, passing up talent from bigotry, and office politics. They actively harm the profitability and yet they exist at all levels. The incentives are fundamentally what shape the systems including the corporations. Blaming corporations alone is a simp…

> They actively harm the profitability and yet they exist at all levels. > The incentives are fundamentally what shape the systems including the corporations. These are key observations, and sadly I suspect there's a Prisoner's Dilemma style thing going on which makes corruption, sexual harassment, bigotry, and office politics somehow "rational" and individually maximising behaviours (for corporations, as well as the…

Being generous and ethical is also a form of human corruption harming the corporate entity. From the corporation's hypothetical point of view, any time a person doesn't do exactly what the corporation needs, isn't the perfect mindless drone, (or isn't creative in just the right inoffensive way), they're a cancer cell in the corpus. But I think this goes for red tribe, as well as blue tribe thinking, as you posit.

After all, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that corporations, especially silicon valley corps, give more lip service to red tribesmen than blue. Maybe that's just because the blue tribe is the more powerful, and the corps are rightfully saying the magic words that allow them to keep their profits.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#126
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. Can it be done in a way that doesn't imply the death of the subject? The key word is replacement. Can this replacement vote or inherit property? What happens if there is a clerical error and they make two replacements. Which one is the real you?

Oh absolutely, I think that is the key thing. Personally I'd never get into a transporter such as they are portrayed in Star Trek - what comes out the other end may well be a perfect reconstruction, and think it is me, and behave to the outside world as if it is me. But would there be a continuity of conscious experience? Or am I dead and a facsimile is now in my place? Incidentally, this is why I can't take Roko's B…

I mean, you're not alone. Nobody takes Roko's basilisk seriously.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#127
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it not be you? If I replace a single one of your neurons with a mechanical replacement, are you still you? What if I replace half? All? If you walk across a room, are you still you? What if I break you down, and reassemble you at the other side of the room, using the same atoms? What if I only use half the original atoms? What if I freeze you, move you across the room, and then dethaw you?

It's the question of what is consciousness. As far as I (crudely) understand it, we don't know what exactly the cause is, other than it's tied extremely tightly to the brain and seems to be an accident of evolution/an illusion. My guess is that as long as the neurons keep firing continuously and the illusion is unbroken, the "you" that is you right now will remain you. So you may well be able to go full ship-of-these…

What about piece-by-piece? What if we 'upload' you piece-by-piece, by replacing neurons in your head with remote connections to virtual neurons on a computer one-by-one?

I think that conventional notions of identity are probably incoherent, and mean you die from second to second anyway.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#128
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact sub-par artificial intelligence is probably at least as dangerous as sub-par human intelligence, when we let it loose with significant power/authority in the real world. (for supporting evidence to this claim, see "high frequency trading", "self driving cars", and "the leader of the free world" )

Sub-par intelligence crashes some cars, causes some wars. Superintelligence turns our whole forward light-cone into paperclips; it's a bit worse.

It doesn’t need to be super to do that — even bacteria are a type of von-Neuman machine that can turn us into more of themselves.

An ASI could convince you that turning yourself into a paperclip is a fun and exciting new opportunity to liberate you from $PERSONAL_PAIN and finally allow you freedom to engage in $PERSONAL_FANTASY.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair. I interpreted the comparison as being between "AI implemented as a property of human organizations" and "AI implemented as a powerful search algorithm". While corporations can certainly be dangerous, they're still made of people and thus are unlikely to want to do things like "convert the entire mass of the solar system into dollar bills" (and even if they did, they'd have a hard time doing it). A suffic…

> While corporations can certainly be dangerous, they're still made of people and thus are unlikely to want to do things like "convert the entire mass of the solar system into dollar bills" I'm assuming this is satire, since that's apparently exactly the goal of corporations.

They might want 1.99e33 USD [0], but I doubt they want to literally have it in the form of “no sun, nowhere to live, no body”.

[0] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=mass%20of%20solar%20sys...

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future (2017)

#130
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sub-par intelligence crashes some cars, causes some wars. Superintelligence turns our whole forward light-cone into paperclips; it's a bit worse.

It doesn’t need to be super to do that — even bacteria are a type of von-Neuman machine that can turn us into more of themselves. An ASI could convince you that turning yourself into a paperclip is a fun and exciting new opportunity to liberate you from $PERSONAL_PAIN and finally allow you freedom to engage in $PERSONAL_FANTASY.

Bacteria are self-limiting. Their offspring compete and they don't reshape their environment to be more friendly to their existence. They don't plan for space colonization either. They're a bit of a toy model for a maximizer, not the real threat of an intelligent, self-modifying maximizer.
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