Is there anything like Rails for Rust?
Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
31–40 of 352 posts
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#32You guys think Rust is good - you should check out Ada++ (you'll have to build GCC yourself though) http://www.adapplang.com
Does it provide the same/better safety guarantees as Rust? The website has extremely limited information about the language.
I can't confirm what is the motivation behind Ada++, but actual Ada2012 standard and in particular the Ada SPARK (2014) subset is in many ways objectively superior to Rust with regards to memory safety.
One major issue with Ada is that commercial grade compilers are not cheap and for the most part the language was unable to get rid of the stereotype of being an Aerospace/Defense language only.
Some discussion on the topic:
https://www.quora.com/How-secure-is-Ada-the-programming-lang...?
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#33Why wouldn't you just use OCaml, Haskell, F#, or Scala, where you've got much more mature web framework options? Don't get me wrong, Rust is fine, but if you don't need its memory management then why make trouble for yourself?
It's in the preface
> The project is simple enough that I can't imagine being too limited by any language's ecosystem. And I've been itching to write something substansive [sic] in Rust...
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#34what about server debugging ? python as an interpreted language have a real advantage here. you can easily patch on production for example to debug or hot fix. you would need to rebuild and upload binary in the case of rust.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone try live-patching a Python server. Modifying the code and restarting the server, sure. Modifying Django templates and having the updates show immediately, sure.¹ But modifying the code and restarting the server is logically equivalent to modifying the Rust code, rebuilding it and restarting it. Any finer live-patching in Python is risky, largely only safe to do at defined boundaries. Modifying code is a hazardous operation, because it depends on how things use it. Patching module.function only helps places that import module and call module.function, for example, not places that use `from module import function`. So, simplifying drastically, you can mostly only really modify singletons, and singletons that have been designed to be modified in this way.
In Rust, you can define such boundaries, and manipulate things like configuration when you’ve decided you want them to be modifiable, perhaps within a debugger, or more likely via some exposed API (maybe a web API).
To be sure, Rust is less flexible: all such extension points must be designed in, rather than often working by accident (though the Python way is very likely to blow up in your face from time to time).
But in the end I don’t think it’s such a big difference.
(On reflection, I suppose I have seen a debugger used in the scope of a particular request within Django, to give you a pdb prompt instead of just the 500 error page. But that’s then just used for inspecting what’s broken, and most such brokennesses would have been caught by the Rust compiler. Still, something equivalent to that could be nice to have in a Rust development web server; I don’t believe any such thing exists at present, but it could in theory and might be interesting to make. It would still definitely be more limited than pdb. Maybe when we have a Miri-powered REPL something interesting will happen in this space. It’s not a fundamentally impossible space.)
¹ If that works, by the way, you should set up the cached template loader, as it’ll speed template rendering up a lot. That used to be something you’d have to do manually, but now the default template loaders configuration includes caching if debug is False.
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#35what about server debugging ? python as an interpreted language have a real advantage here. you can easily patch on production for example to debug or hot fix. you would need to rebuild and upload binary in the case of rust.
Debugging and hotfixing in production is not generally a good idea. Updating a site with significant traffic will usually involve pushing some type of artifact through a build system and deploying it to multiple servers, and that’s true whether it’s a python script or rust binary. As far as an actual debugger, I believe rust generally encourages gdb. If your concern is about Rust compile times, that’s a different but valid question.
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#36There is an advocate on our team that wants to migrate our web service from Nodejs to Rust. While I am not a huge fan of Typescript, at least libraries are readily available and generally easy to use. On the other hand, being able to show that we are able to do monitoring, user auditing, ORM, opentracing, gRPC-web with Rust is non trivial. Now that I think of it, being able to do a "hello world" on any language is pr…
As far as I know, you need grpc-web only because there is no direct grpc implementation for javascript. For rust, c++ etc. you would use grpc natively.
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#37There is an advocate on our team that wants to migrate our web service from Nodejs to Rust. While I am not a huge fan of Typescript, at least libraries are readily available and generally easy to use. On the other hand, being able to show that we are able to do monitoring, user auditing, ORM, opentracing, gRPC-web with Rust is non trivial. Now that I think of it, being able to do a "hello world" on any language is pr…
As far as I know, you need grpc-web only because there is no direct grpc implementation for javascript. For rust, c++ etc. you would use grpc natively.
grpc-web is attractive to our use case because it would take away from manually implementing REST interfaces and every once in a while having type mismatches. The less room for mistakes, the better.
.NET Core just recently last month that gRPC-web is stable [1]. It would remove a huge amount of boilerplate in setting up services on both client and server side.
Some people also recommend to use Envoy [2], but usually the less cogs the better.
[1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/aspnet/grpc-web-for-net-now-a... [2] https://grpc.io/docs/languages/web/basics/
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#38I tried Rust about a month ago. The language itself is amazing, the pattern matching is super expressive, the borrow checker is incredible in the kinds of errors it can pick up on, and rust-analyzer is leagues beyond where RLS was. But... the compile times are an absolute non-starter for me. I'm the kind of guy that likes to re-run his code continually to see if it validates to what I expect it to be doing. In Rust,…
I find that the strong type system and editor plugins like Rust Analyzer have me covered for “does this do what I expect?”, which means I do way less write-run-check than I would I say, Python.
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#39I tried Rust about a month ago. The language itself is amazing, the pattern matching is super expressive, the borrow checker is incredible in the kinds of errors it can pick up on, and rust-analyzer is leagues beyond where RLS was. But... the compile times are an absolute non-starter for me. I'm the kind of guy that likes to re-run his code continually to see if it validates to what I expect it to be doing. In Rust,…
As a datapoint for your hypothesis, when working in a typed language I will build my code only a few times a day.
I much prefer working from a logical and thoughtful approach rather than iteration. At the point where I start a build I am already reasonably confident that it will do what I want it to.
There are some bugs where I will need to re-build several times consecutively but these are relatively rare for me (I work on REST API systems - so nothing too crazy).
Re: Rust Is Surprisingly Good as a Server Language
#40Is there anything like Rails for Rust?
I don't think any Rust web framework provides as much as Rails does, but you can see the current state of them here: https://www.arewewebyet.org/topics/frameworks/