Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

m.dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 274 posts

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#211

Post by petre »

zatel wrote: post #27
tpmx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most famous one ended when the soviet union collapsed (fatigue, economic stresses, random misunderstandings). I'm looking forward to the same thing happening to CCP/china in about a decade or so.

Here's hoping the US isn't the one that collapses in on itself this time. My perception of China is that it's government makes life pretty terrible but it seems better organized over there (because of state control).

You obviously haven't lived in a communist country. It's merely just pretending to be better organised, and yes, state control. People will do things out of fear and because they're forced to but when the central power collapses everything becomes dis-organised and a few opportunists helped by X outside power take control and/or profit.

I sincerely hope that the US doesn't collapse because we'd be left at the mercy of Russia and China.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#212

Post by kolanos »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #197
ausjke wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least Meng can hire lawyers etc. In China, there is no real law when it comes to anything political or economical, which are always mixed.

There is a serious problem with justice in the US though. We have in Norway seen cases of our citizens being unjustly imprisoned in the US through sham trials. While the US has protected people doing serious crime in Norway. I don’t defend China, but I wish the US held a much higher standard itself because it is hard for western countries to fight for justice and human rights when the US has such a poor record itself…

> There is a serious problem with justice in the US though. We have in Norway seen cases of our citizens being unjustly imprisoned in the US through sham trials.

Any links to support this?

> While the US has protected people doing serious crime in Norway.

Isn't that an indictment of the Norway justice system? Or would it be acceptable if Norway could protect its citizens in the United States?

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#213

Post by IllogicalLogic »

tristor wrote: post #191
genoapol wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the Chinese haven't acted like global parasites for the past few centuries like Europe and America.

Even if you acknowledge that a global hegemony lead by the US currently exists, it certainly has not "for the past few centuries". Value judgements on whether that hegemony has been a net positive or net negative for the world, aside. I'd say your viewpoint of the world is not based on reality.

[dead]

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#214

Post by FpUser »

petre wrote: post #131
mytailorisrich wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving the discussion on right or wrong aside, the 2 Canadians were not targeted at random and were clearly on a Chinese government list of foreigners with close links to foreign governments' agencies that the Chinese let operate "at their pleasure". A bit like when e.g. Russia arrests and expels/imprisons Western spies the US/UK immediately know which Russians on their soil to target in the same way in a tit-for-ta…

At least Russia, the US and the EU expel each others' spies as opposed to imprisionment and torture. Tourture is even illegal and punished bt law in the EU, which adhers to the human rights charter.

They expel spies who are under diplomatic cover. Otherwise they get arrested and jailed. Well after that there is a hope that imprisoned spies could get exchanged.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#215

Post by bigpumpkin »

fermienrico wrote: post #157

Deleting this comment - I will email dang.

Send Dang an email

"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#216

Post by fermienrico »

bigpumpkin wrote: post #215
fermienrico wrote: post #157

Deleting this comment - I will email dang.

Send Dang an email "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."

Thanks, I didn't notice this guideline and I apologize for taking over this thread. Apparently, my post is upvoted heavily 20+ votes and it's clouding the actual discussion.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#217

Post by yongjik »

fermienrico wrote: post #209
yongjik wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just reloaded the page and, let me see the top comments: 1. Note that US citizens have long been warned about stuff like this ... 2. I just noticed - all anti China comments were heavily upvoted but just in last 30 mins ... (this comment thread) 3. Not just arrested but tortured ... 4. This is bad for Canadians recently, with many arrests and accusations of spying ... 5. I've visited China nearly every year for the…

I am seeing the same that you're seeing now . Those grayed comments are back to black. Why do we even have such a huge oscillation? I am extremely suspicious but cautious with allegation without data. What I am sure of is the following: Comments start out positive, then comes the hammer and they go extremely gray (the lightest color and bottom out at -4?) and then we have them back to normal levels. This is a really…

Well I'm no HN admin, but from my own experience, a comment can switch between grey/black with only a few votes. You are basically saying that a controversial comment gets upvotes, downvotes, and then upvotes. A pro-China commenter would see the exact same data as you see, and claim this is an evidence of anti-Chinese brigading ("hammer").

* While I was writing this my original comment score went from 1 to 2 to 0, which kinda proves my point...

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#218

Post by jki275 »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #197
ausjke wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least Meng can hire lawyers etc. In China, there is no real law when it comes to anything political or economical, which are always mixed.

There is a serious problem with justice in the US though. We have in Norway seen cases of our citizens being unjustly imprisoned in the US through sham trials. While the US has protected people doing serious crime in Norway. I don’t defend China, but I wish the US held a much higher standard itself because it is hard for western countries to fight for justice and human rights when the US has such a poor record itself…

I would very much like to see a citation on this, because I’ve certainly never heard of it if true.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#219

Post by tpmx »

petre wrote: post #211
zatel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's hoping the US isn't the one that collapses in on itself this time. My perception of China is that it's government makes life pretty terrible but it seems better organized over there (because of state control).

You obviously haven't lived in a communist country. It's merely just pretending to be better organised, and yes, state control. People will do things out of fear and because they're forced to but when the central power collapses everything becomes dis-organised and a few opportunists helped by X outside power take control and/or profit. I sincerely hope that the US doesn't collapse because we'd be left at the mercy o…

I think both you, I, and the person you commented on agree on that.

(You probably misread a negation.)

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#220

Post by fermienrico »

yongjik wrote: post #217
fermienrico wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am seeing the same that you're seeing now . Those grayed comments are back to black. Why do we even have such a huge oscillation? I am extremely suspicious but cautious with allegation without data. What I am sure of is the following: Comments start out positive, then comes the hammer and they go extremely gray (the lightest color and bottom out at -4?) and then we have them back to normal levels. This is a really…

Well I'm no HN admin, but from my own experience, a comment can switch between grey/black with only a few votes. You are basically saying that a controversial comment gets upvotes, downvotes, and then upvotes. A pro-China commenter would see the exact same data as you see, and claim this is an evidence of anti-Chinese brigading ("hammer"). * While I was writing this my original comment score went from 1 to 2 to 0, wh…

I see, if there is benevolent behavior, I think that's fine.

What I am concerned about is a coordinated astroturfing that is perhaps state sponsored to change the western narrative. That's pretty fricking scary and should be investigated if that's the case.

Post reply on HN