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US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

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Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#191

Post by tristor »

genoapol wrote: post #140
kolanos wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). As a non-European, non-American and non-Chinese I find this utterly confused line of thinking depressing. It is clear Europeans are subject to their own propaganda in this regard.

Except the Chinese haven't acted like global parasites for the past few centuries like Europe and America.

Even if you acknowledge that a global hegemony lead by the US currently exists, it certainly has not "for the past few centuries". Value judgements on whether that hegemony has been a net positive or net negative for the world, aside. I'd say your viewpoint of the world is not based on reality.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#192

Post by IllogicalLogic »

jorblumesea wrote: post #175
IllogicalLogic wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think anyone would disagree that she's a pawn in a geopolitical struggle, but it also sounds like she absolutely and intentionally violated US law Someone that didn't visit the US was arrested for "breaking US law"...replace "US" with "China" and see how this sentence rings.

Why do you have to visit the country to commit crimes against that country? Isn't that how every sovereign nation state works? The host country can choose not to extradite, but most countries generally accept this basic idea that sovereign nations can charge and warrant the arrest of individuals as pertinent.

If Assange leaked Chinese intelligence secrets, would he be free right now? I expect so.

I'm not sure the whole "China is uniquely evil" idea that is expressed in these comments stands up to even the smallest scrutiny.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#193

Post by yorwba »

razakel wrote: post #125
Aperocky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013. The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster. Drug dealers in China…

Why would someone smuggle meth into China? Surely with China's fairly lax regulations on the chemical industry someone would be more likely to be smuggling it out...

Yes, he was arrested after trying to fly out of China with meth in his luggage.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#194

Post by pizza »

mthoms wrote: post #190
koheripbal wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think the conviction rates in western courts are? It's pretty close to 99% as well.

You literally just made that up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

So is 93% (DoJ, 2012) far or close to 99%?

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#195

Post by dragonwriter »

trixie_ wrote: post #182
oddlyamused wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world needs to start bullying China. I am sickened by how weak the EU is with china. They care only about profits. We need to start treating China like we treat Russia. They are a serious threat to the rest of the world environmentally, politically, and militarily.

Sure bully China some more. Today they're kicking out foreigners, tomorrow they will take Taiwan. No dobut. Just like the world stood by as Hong Kong fell, the same will happen with Taiwan. China is only testing the waters with Hong Kong. That's what being tough is all about. Be careful what you wish for.

> Just like the world stood by as Hong Kong fell

Hong Kong was already PRC-administered Chinese territory.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#196

Post by tristor »

genoapol wrote: post #148
kortilla wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket and you get the death penalty? Sounds like a super convenient way to kill off politically inconvenient people.

>So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket... Sounds like something US police have done in record numbers with many cases caught on camera. ---Reply to Tristor here due to post rate limit Knowing history, western hypocrisy, and warhawking when I see it, is "Pro-China" now? Were you alive during the ramp up to the Iraq war? I suspect many would have incor…

[flagged]

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#197

Post by socialdemocrat »

ausjke wrote: post #133
genoapol wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what the US & Canada did to Meng Wanzhou.

At least Meng can hire lawyers etc. In China, there is no real law when it comes to anything political or economical, which are always mixed.

There is a serious problem with justice in the US though. We have in Norway seen cases of our citizens being unjustly imprisoned in the US through sham trials.

While the US has protected people doing serious crime in Norway.

I don’t defend China, but I wish the US held a much higher standard itself because it is hard for western countries to fight for justice and human rights when the US has such a poor record itself.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#198

Post by ddona »

koheripbal wrote: post #183
mthoms wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. People are being accused for crimes they (more than likely) didn't commit and denied basic human rights. They face a 99% conviction rate in the Chinese courts. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-china-charges-...

What do you think the conviction rates in western courts are? It's pretty close to 99% as well.

In 2018, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported that among defendants charged with a felony, 68% were convicted (59% of a felony and the remainder of a misdemeanor) with felony conviction rates highest for defendants originally charged with motor vehicle theft (74%), driving-related offenses (73%), murder (70%), burglary (69%), and drug trafficking (67%); and lowest for defendants originally charged with assault (45%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#199

Post by ajmurmann »

tpmx wrote: post #19
aspenmayer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More to the point, how does a country end a Cold War? Hot wars have a formal end via truces and armistices; undeclared wars may continue unabated in other theaters and fronts, as well as different domains entirely.

The most famous one ended when the soviet union collapsed (fatigue, economic stresses, random misunderstandings). I'm looking forward to the same thing happening to CCP/china in about a decade or so.

I do wonder if that cold war did indeed end with the fall of the Soviet Union or if it's in fact still going on, but the US and some of its European partners aren't aware of it.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#200

Post by yongjik »

fermienrico wrote: post #157

Deleting this comment - I will email dang.

I just reloaded the page and, let me see the top comments:

1. Note that US citizens have long been warned about stuff like this ...

2. I just noticed - all anti China comments were heavily upvoted but just in last 30 mins ... (this comment thread)

3. Not just arrested but tortured ...

4. This is bad for Canadians recently, with many arrests and accusations of spying ...

5. I've visited China nearly every year for the past 6 years and never had any sort of issues ...

6. I get the impression that we're now in an undeclared Cold War with China.

7. Use this to negotiate hazard pay with your company when traveling to China.

The rest are greyed out:

8. ... If this is the direction China wants to continue to go in, I no longer want anything to do with it ...

9. ... Of course anything and everything is a sign of a "New Cold War" so I'm not surprised this is as upvoted as it is.

10. The current administration has been bullying China incessantly ...

So, 1/3/8 are clearly anti-China, 4/6/7 can be read either way, 5 is questioning the premise (so we could consider it mildly pro-China, if you will), and 9/10 are the only explicitly pro-China comments. They are also at the bottom.

So I'm not really sure what you're saying.

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