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US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

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Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#141

Post by magicsmoke »

unishark wrote: post #76
zatel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's hoping the US isn't the one that collapses in on itself this time. My perception of China is that it's government makes life pretty terrible but it seems better organized over there (because of state control).

If we define a "collapse" as the rulers getting deposed by the opposition, then it happens in the US pretty often. When it happens in China things may get very messy.

A "collapse" in the US would be civil war 2.0. That's what a "collapse" in China was from 1916 to 1949.

Still, a civil war requires the civilian government to lose control of the military or a central military to splinter into regional militias. That doesn't seem likely in the US or China. Another scenario for a US "collapse" would be a military coup or some other end to the democratic experiment.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#142

Post by Nginx487 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #7
ciguy wrote: post #2

I've been to China a few times, most recently in late 2018. I traveled overland by train from Beijing to Xian and then to Shanghai. Everything as a non-chinese citizen was just harder than it was when I visited in 2014. Buying train tickets was a massive hassle without a Chinese ID. Paying for anything was difficult because many places no longer take cash and you can't really get a proper WeChat account as a foreigne…

Posted 10 mins ago and already downvoted. Do HN not have algos to stop this astroturfing behaviour? It’s becoming very prevalent for anything that criticises the CCP.

HN is a very inviting platform for both Chinese and Russian state trolls. Don't be upset about their attention, truth is on your side. EDIT: here they are downvoting my comment to prove me wrong.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#143

Post by knolax »

calibas wrote: post #107
knolax wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[removed]

These isn't something vague, we're talking about a specific authoritarian government who's already been caught manipulating social media. https://about.fb.com/news/2019/08/removing-cib-china/

[removed]

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#144

Post by jszymborski »

dehrmann wrote: post #86
wendyshu wrote: post #8

Not just arrested but tortured, as we've seen with the two Canadian Michaels and the British Simon Cheng. Edit: British-employed not actually British

Aren't the Michaels just retaliation for Meng Wanzhou?

"just" retaliation... this makes their detention arbitrary. After Meng Wanzhou was arrested (and placed under house arrest in her multi-million dollar Vancouver mansion), the Chinese government arbitrarily picked two high-value Canadians (an entrepeneur and a Candian diplomat) and threw them into solitary confinement, interrogating them 24/7 in shifts, and giving ostensibly no access to lawyers/representation.

Oh, and by the way, you don't need to be a diplomat or entrepeneur to be picked up. They do it all the time [0].

You can read more about Spavor and Kovrig, the Canadians detained in solitary confinement in China for over a year, here: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-michael-kov...

[0] https://torontosun.com/news/national/123-canadians-detained-...

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#145

Post by amanaplanacanal »

wendyshu wrote: post #54
trixie_ wrote: post #31

The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.

China's state-sponsored IP theft has been called the largest transfer of wealth in history. I'm honestly curious what the best diplomatic strategy is to combat it, other than declaring war.

It’s nothing new though. IP theft has a long and honorable history. It’s only recently that we have decided that it’s such a terrible thing, now that we own so much of the IP in question.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#146

Post by hartator »

magicsmoke wrote: post #115

Use this to negotiate hazard pay with your company when traveling to China. There's money to be made by leveraging the difference between perceived and actual risk.

> There's money to be made by leveraging the difference between perceived and actual risk.

You think the risk is not that big?

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#147

Post by [deleted] »

jszymborski wrote: post #124
outlace wrote: post #93

I've visited China nearly every year for the past 6 years and never had any sort of issues. I thought all the security personnel I encountered at the airport, immigration, subway stations etc in China were very professional and respectful. In contrast to one of the last times I was returning from China to the U.S. and witnessed a highly unprofessional U.S. CBP officer who was yelling and berating incoming internation…

I'm not sure how you can make that assurance. Fellow Canadians have had to watch as an increasing number of Canadians are arbitrarily detained and held in torturous conditions. These Canadians range from high-profile and wealthy[0] to low-profile [1,2], and the conditions in which they are detained are an affront to human rights. [0] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-michael-kov... [1] https://www.theg…

[deleted]

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#148

Post by genoapol »

kortilla wrote: post #102
Aperocky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013. The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster. Drug dealers in China…

So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket and you get the death penalty? Sounds like a super convenient way to kill off politically inconvenient people.

>So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket...

Sounds like something US police have done in record numbers with many cases caught on camera.

---Reply to Tristor here due to post rate limit

Knowing history, western hypocrisy, and warhawking when I see it, is "Pro-China" now?

Were you alive during the ramp up to the Iraq war? I suspect many would have incorrectly shared your sentiment if I was publicly anti-invasion.

When the US military industrial complex yells "squirrel" repeatedly, choosing to not be a sucker isn't "Pro-China" or "Pro-Iraq".

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#149

Post by bassman9000 »

Aperocky wrote: post #85
adventured wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Australia as well. They recently gave an Australian citizen a death penalty sentence in retaliation for the ongoing conflict between Australia and China. At the rate things are going, in another five years nobody from a liberal nation will be able to safely visit Xi's new hermit kingdom. It's a shame. I always thought it would be nice to visit Hong Kong.

> Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013. The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster. Drug dealers in China…

Which is a lesson China has probably learnt, painfully well, after the Opium Wars: they have swift death penalties for traffickers, but, in a move that would seem hypocritical for us, but completely normal for them, flood the US with fentanyl and other addictive substances.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#150

Post by guitarbill »

oddlyamused wrote: post #44
trixie_ wrote: post #31

The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.

The world needs to start bullying China. I am sickened by how weak the EU is with china. They care only about profits. We need to start treating China like we treat Russia. They are a serious threat to the rest of the world environmentally, politically, and militarily.

I think you're probably right... except the EU is also not very strong w.r.t. Russia, since they're so dependant on Russian oil and natural gas.
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