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Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

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Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#61

Post by elygre »

dwaltrip wrote: post #26
glacials wrote: post #14

Can someone explain why Mano's job description prompted this response from Feynman? I don't know enough to understand what this problem is, or why Feynman thinks any person solving it would be sad.

Feynman was sad that Mano seemed to have a low view of himself. He had described his work as trying to solve a “humble and down-to-earth type of problem” — in contrast to the supposedly more majestic problems that he had seen Feynman solve.

I’m thinking Feynman is a bit high on himself. He assumes that someone who states that his own work is “humble and down-to-earth” has a low view of yourself.

Some Michelin Star chef might ask me what I had for dinner, I’d reply “burgers!”, they’d go “don’t be sad”.

I’d go, “eff you, I didn’t say I don’t like burgers! I love burgers!”

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#62

Post by jacobush »

giantDinosaur wrote: post #31
watwut wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I remember realizing when reading some of his stories, that they are fun to read but I would find that obnoxious/annoying in person.

He seemed to be remarkably charming - so I'm not sure how annoying such behaviour actually would have been.

During the encounter you’d perhaps laugh.

Afterwards you’d find yourself dazed and confused, wondering what happened and what steamrolled you in front of everyone.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#63

Post by Forgeties79 »

tropdrop wrote: post #36
erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

Too few engineers eschew ego - this is Feynman's point. Most people are not Feynman. Most engineers today think they have the capability of being Feynman one day - of course, statistics dictates that most will not be. This is why Feynman's advice is powerful - The worthwhile problems are the ones you can really solve or help solve, the ones you can really contribute something to. Feynman here is instructing someone w…

It kind of reminds me of how many people remember some particular middle school or high school teacher who had a big impact on them. It’s not like they literally saved their lives, but the way they taught and the lessons learned just stuck with folks.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#64

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

>> One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that some ego about oneself might be more or less required for success.

Well, if you don't think you pack a punch or can take a beating, you don't throw your hat into the ring.

The problem is always to know how to strike a balance- believe in yourself, know what you can achieve, but don't become an overblown bag of farts. Why? Because obviously nobody can stand knowing they're an overblown bag of farts, so if someone is, they don't know the first thing: who they are.

Socrates, the wisest of men, knew how to get out of this one. "I know one thing, and I know it well: I know nothing at all", he said [1]. And, he said, "know thyself" [2].

A scientist is driven by what she doesn't know, and wishes to know. But she must know the immensity of the task, lest she become an idiot who thinks she knows and knows nothing, John Snow.

________

[1] my liberal translation of his laconic "εν οίδα οτι ουδέν οίδα", "I know one thing, that I know no thing".

[2] "Γνώθι σαυτόν".

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#65

Post by Noos »

Aeolun wrote: post #21
krastanov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feynman, like everyone, has his virtues and vices, but humility is definitely not among his strong points. The majority of the stories he tells about himself are anecdotes in which he is the smart person in the room making (maybe lighthearted and friendly) fun of others with a cheaply superficial pretence of humility.

In most cases he probably was the smartest person in the room. If he managed to stay lighthearted and friendly while making fun of others he’s doing a better job than me, because I’ve lost much of my patience for stupidity.

he doesn't really have any right to make fun of others, though. Smart people forget that they require a tremendous amount of resources and support to make best use of their intelligence. A director may be a brilliant movie maker, but he needs a whole film company to realize his visions.

A lot of smart people berate others for their stupidity while relying on them for production power and resources to realize their visions or to make money off of them. There needs to be a lot more humility in general about others, especially since in fields like game design, there are way too many smart or skilled people chasing too few supporters/fans, to the point of underpricing the efforts of their labor.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#66

Post by z5h »

“The worthwhile problems are the ones you can really solve or help solve, the ones you can really contribute something to.”

The ones we can solve right now? Or the ones we might solve eventually... if we make the right choices and exert the right effort?

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#67

Post by lioeters »

johannesg wrote: post #49

I wonder if Koichi Mano's phrasing "a humble and down-to-earth type of problem" is simply Japanese politeness. And this beautiful letter a chance result of two cultures not entirely understanding each other. That is a nice thought.

I grew up in Japan as well as in the U.S., and I'm inclined to agree with your take. This brilliant letter is the result of a cross-cultural exchange of ideas, philosophy, ways of life.

There's a strong Buddhist influence in Japanese culture, and in that value system, it's emphasized that selflessness is a virtue. "The nameless" is one of the phrases in this tradition, for pointing at the "ineffable mystery" - similar to how other religions like Christianity have words to talk about God indirectly, in deference, as "the Lord" or "the Highest".

In American culture, there's a strong tradition of individualism, self-reliance, and self-respect. Also, generally speaking, there's a sense of society as a competition.

On both sides, there are unhealthy extremes. The self-effacing approach can lead to loss of confidence and purpose, and to suppress the fullest expression of one's unique nature. And being "full of oneself" can lead to arrogance, blindness to one's own limitations, lack of empathy, and so on.

Personally, I read Feynman's letter and feel his humanity, the care and consideration for fellow thinkers, to encourage and support each person to value who they are.

Maybe the Japanese colleague did not need that advice, with a whole another understanding of the value and pride of being nameless - but, I tend to believe that Feynman sensed something, and had empathy to feel that this person needed to hear positive words to be confident in who they are and what they do.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#68

Post by bjornsing »

elygre wrote: post #61
dwaltrip wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feynman was sad that Mano seemed to have a low view of himself. He had described his work as trying to solve a “humble and down-to-earth type of problem” — in contrast to the supposedly more majestic problems that he had seen Feynman solve.

I’m thinking Feynman is a bit high on himself. He assumes that someone who states that his own work is “humble and down-to-earth” has a low view of yourself. Some Michelin Star chef might ask me what I had for dinner, I’d reply “burgers!”, they’d go “don’t be sad”. I’d go, “eff you, I didn’t say I don’t like burgers! I love burgers!”

Isn’t it Mano’s self-description as “a nameless man” that Feynman is objecting to?

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#69

Post by lioeters »

LordHumungous wrote: post #27
erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

He had a gargantuan ego... and gargantuan accomplishments to back it up. The Michael Jordan of late 20th century physics, in more ways than one.

"Michael Jordan is the Richard Feynman of late 20th century sports." (Sorry, couldn't resist.. :)

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#70

Post by beckingz »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #59
tropdrop wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too few engineers eschew ego - this is Feynman's point. Most people are not Feynman. Most engineers today think they have the capability of being Feynman one day - of course, statistics dictates that most will not be. This is why Feynman's advice is powerful - The worthwhile problems are the ones you can really solve or help solve, the ones you can really contribute something to. Feynman here is instructing someone w…

Problems can be quite humbling. Taking on big stuff isn't necessarily a "big ego" thing, but getting upset that we didn't solve the problem might be. In my experience, big problems get solved by teams. It's important to be a good team member, even if we are "close to the gods." From what I understand, Feynman seemed to work well in teams, but I never worked with him, so I don't know. False humility isn't helpful eith…

That is a powerful quote.

Apparently the author (Marianne Williamson, not Mandela) was flabbergasted and honored that her words were being attributed to Mandela. [0]

0 https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/our-deepest-fear/

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