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Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

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Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#161

Post by bmitc »

refurb wrote: post #92
entropea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many around the world and in USA who would say the exact same about the USA and I'm sure China says the exact same about USA. I personally see no difference between the two except they're both fighting to be the world superpower and China is really stepping in to take that role from a USA in distress.

Hmmm... US invades Japan, turns it from a militant authoritarian system into a democracy, then gives it independence. Invades, then turns Philippines into a sovereign nation. Same with South Korea. Same with Western Europe post-WW2. Has China done that?

The U.S. has explicitly suppressed plenty of other governments before, both for ideological and economic reasons. Read about Salvatore Allende, who was elected via a democratic process in 1970s Chile on a socialist reform platform and then was subsequently overthrown and killed, via suicide after being surrounded, with heavy involvement via the U.S. CIA.

China has not typically gone beyond their own historical borders, and when they have, it is miniscule compared to how the U.S. has.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#162

Post by rayiner »

bmitc wrote: post #161
refurb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm... US invades Japan, turns it from a militant authoritarian system into a democracy, then gives it independence. Invades, then turns Philippines into a sovereign nation. Same with South Korea. Same with Western Europe post-WW2. Has China done that?

The U.S. has explicitly suppressed plenty of other governments before, both for ideological and economic reasons. Read about Salvatore Allende, who was elected via a democratic process in 1970s Chile on a socialist reform platform and then was subsequently overthrown and killed, via suicide after being surrounded, with heavy involvement via the U.S. CIA. China has not typically gone beyond their own historical border…

And now Chile has the highest HDI in Latin America.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#163

Post by bmitc »

rayiner wrote: post #162
bmitc wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. has explicitly suppressed plenty of other governments before, both for ideological and economic reasons. Read about Salvatore Allende, who was elected via a democratic process in 1970s Chile on a socialist reform platform and then was subsequently overthrown and killed, via suicide after being surrounded, with heavy involvement via the U.S. CIA. China has not typically gone beyond their own historical border…

And now Chile has the highest HDI in Latin America.

That is immaterial to the discussion.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#164

Post by Chiba-City »

Read George Friedman of STATFOR fame and fortune. Brits are in the trouble they deserve. Your affectations, restaurant reviews and completely fake "team seeking identities" are completely irrelevant. You [Ed. spelling] and what what armies? https://geopoliticalfutures.com/the-geopolitics-of-britain/

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#165

Post by biscotti »

Chiba-City wrote: post #121

Americans are the most isolated, ahistorical and heavily propagandized humans on earth. Post-imperial Brits can't feed themselves. So says Brit philosopher John Gray, one of the architects of Thatcherism. I personally helped destroy the Apartheid govt South African govt, from Harvard, working for/with Unitarians, and met Desmond Tutu in the process. I fully expect horrifying and unspeakable Karmic retributions to bef…

[flagged]

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#166

Post by oh_sigh »

rayiner wrote: post #153
oh_sigh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puerto Rico doesn't make much sense to me - they should either be a state and have the full rights and federal oversight that every other state does, or be their own thing entirely. Living in this limbo world where you're a citizen but sometimes in name only if you're on the island seems wrong.

They’re in a limbo because they don’t agree on what should happen. In the most recent real referendum (2012), a plurality slightly short of a majority wanted to maintain the status quo. But the rest were split: some wanted statehood, but the others wanted to be independent. Note that Puerto Ricans are fully citizens. The island itself doesn’t have representation in Congress because it’s not a state. (Which is a legal…

I agree for the historical reasons, but I don't think it should be left to Puerto Rico if they can't decide. The US should just say we are (state-hooding/evicting) you, unless you decide one way or the other. Along those same lines, I also think DC should gain representation in congress in some manner, either by largely becoming part of VA, or by becoming a 51st state(DC has more people than Wyoming or Vermont, and about as much as Alaska).

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#167

Post by jryle70 »

Chiba-City wrote: post #134
chub500 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent obviously cares about the truth, evidenced by their references. It is amazing to me how so many freely thinking individuals can completely disregard the importance of free speech. How many of your references would be visible to a Chinese citizen? Doesn't the fact that we can discuss the US government's misdeeds on their own soil mean anything to you? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_…

The French wisely censor American broadcast "media." Broadcast lies never delineates "free speech." I went to Harvard. I have written paychecks for former NSA employees. I have friends and family at the World Bank, Reuters and NYT. They are paid handsomely to lie, with "talking points" dictated by CIA at Langley.

Really? So CBS News apparently didn't get paid by CIA when they expose Abu Ghraib scandal [0], and NYT must have forgotten about that as well when they partnered with the Guardian to publish Edward Snowden's leak [1]. Those are two of the biggest reveals of the last two decades.

Talking about Snowden, I have always wondered why there's never been a Chinese whistleblower. Nobody working in Chinese intelligence has the courage or conscience, or they have no way to let the world know?

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone...

[1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-guar...

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#168

Post by joveian »

save_ferris wrote: post #53
door99 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?

Suppressing the Tianenmen Square uprising. From a UK diplomatic cable describing the scene: > STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS. Say what you will about the US, we still haven’t run citizens over with tanks and hosed them down drains. Sour…

As far as I can tell this is completely false and none of the eyewitnesses have corroborated that account. The famous photo of "Tank Man" provides evidence of a case where this didn't happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

The main wikipedia article on Tianenmen square discusses other estimates of the number of deaths (all others being much lower):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests

There are a number of people involved in the protests who have left China and provided accounts. At least one person wrote a book, although there is no English translation as far as I know.

The British government has itself killed quite a lot of civilians and is hardly a reliable source considering their history with China.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#169

Post by BrandonMarc »

claudeganon wrote: post #64
save_ferris wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppressing the Tianenmen Square uprising. From a UK diplomatic cable describing the scene: > STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS. Say what you will about the US, we still haven’t run citizens over with tanks and hosed them down drains. Sour…

Tanks are a bit showy when you can just have the police and National Guard shoot protestors without consequence: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Park_(Berkeley) Shooting workers that unionized was also common: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattimer_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Road_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine…

Thank you for bringing up Kent State. That event is taught in history classes all over the country as an example of something we did wrong, and desperately want to never repeat.

Contrast this with Tiananmen Square: Beijing does everything it can to prevent its citizens knowing about it, and is all to happy to cultivate a reputation that they would gladly do it again today.

Really good example. Thank you.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#170

Post by dang »

aswanson wrote: post #36

China is a horrific, authoritarian monster. I hope this century sees their vision checked and reduced back to the edges of humanity.

Nationalistic flamewar is not ok here, let alone drive-by flamebait like this that is as grandiose as it is cheap. We ban accounts that post like this.

No, that's not because we're defending China or are secret communist agents. We're defending HN against vandalism. Not to mention arson.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23807418.

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