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Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

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Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#41

Post by gruez »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #29
Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue. A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suff…

>Consider as well, during the Korean war, A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers, including a USA at the zenith of their conventional arms power.

Isn't that because China got the drop on the western powers?

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#42

Post by throwaway2048 »

gruez wrote: post #41
throwaway2048 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue. A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suff…

>Consider as well, during the Korean war, A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers, including a USA at the zenith of their conventional arms power. Isn't that because China got the drop on the western powers?

They would certainly get the drop on a tiny landmass like HK.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#43

Post by tempestn »

spot8ptr wrote: post #15
chrisco255 wrote: post #3

I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

I wish HKer in the U.S. and Britain can have their own system (One country Two system). Otherwise it is worse than China.

Rather than just downvoting I'll ask: how do you see the US and UK being worse than China?

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#44

Post by fermienrico »

coldtea wrote: post #21
chrisco255 wrote: post #3

I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

> I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here. Not many special "brilliant entrepreneurs". Just regular ole entrepreneurs taking advantage of the specific spot HK was in, and the specific relationship between Britain and China for global trade. Merely bring the same people elsewhere would accomplish no great mir…

Not sure if I agree. Maimi tourism shifting to Maine is totally different beast since tourism by definition relies on local sights.

SV-based entrepreneurs are already going to places like Austin and Portland. It takes time.

It would quicker if we get 3 million people situated in an abstract region of US since the critical mass to get the ball rolling would already have been achieved. It would be a challenge, but not for the reasons you've dilineated.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#45

Post by door99 »

aswanson wrote: post #36

China is a horrific, authoritarian monster. I hope this century sees their vision checked and reduced back to the edges of humanity.

In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#47

Post by refurb »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #29
Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue. A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suff…

A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers

I think the 1.5M North Korean who died might disagree that China "almost single handedly defeated the coalition".

China paid a huge price for that war that ended in a stalemate. 200,000 dead and probably the same wounded/missing. That's ~12% of the Chinese military at the time.

By contrast the US lost ~1M dead/wounded in WW2 out of a peak strength of 12M.

Interesting, one reason why the US strategy in Vietnam was limited was the fear of China entering the war. Based on a few accounts I've read, China had zero intention of actually engaging in combat as they were still smarting from the Korean war.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#48

Post by person_of_color »

gruez wrote: post #41
throwaway2048 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue. A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suff…

>Consider as well, during the Korean war, A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers, including a USA at the zenith of their conventional arms power. Isn't that because China got the drop on the western powers?

> got the drop on the western powers

Meaning what exactly?

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#49

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

door99 wrote: post #45
aswanson wrote: post #36

China is a horrific, authoritarian monster. I hope this century sees their vision checked and reduced back to the edges of humanity.

In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?

Man, good thing you limited it to the last 40 years and not the last 60, where they killed tens of millions due to both insane incompetence and malice.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#50

Post by [deleted] »

Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

[deleted]
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