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How to Understand Things

nabeelqu.co

51–60 of 121 posts

Re: How to Understand Things

#51

Great post. Personal anecdote: I don't think I really understood anything in school, but I was decent at going through the motions of carrying out certain methods and recalling certain facts when I needed to. I went on to study Maths at university, and for most of my first year, I had the same surface level "methods + facts" knowledge that got me through school. After some studying, I could recite definitions and the…

>I suspect lots of people go through the entire education system like this. +1. it took me a couple years after getting kicked out of college to get my head sorted out to the point where I felt like I could "think" again I think one of the most harmful things about schooling is the way it imposes a tracked structure on learning. it demarcates knowledge into discrete subjects and sets up a linear progression through t…

Our school is poisonous (can tell for France), if not evil. It become crystal clear after reading Celine Alvarez. Not sure if she got translated yet. In english, but older you also have Alfie Kohn, but I haven't read him.

When reading Celine, one understand that children are natural born learner, and there is no effort needed to make them learn stuff. Our school model is industrial production of objects. Thinking human machines. We are way more than that. Sadly Pink Floyd description of the school still echo to our modern school. Some peoples don't feel that way about school. I don't really know why. Maybe they never imagined how better it could have been, so they found it great.

Re: How to Understand Things

#52
Interesting; for the chain rule proof he cites, it would seem at first glance that if you rewrite the leibniz notation as its equivalent limit notation, then the y terms cancel. It has been a while since I learned differential calculus, so perhaps that is why I don't immediately recall why this is wrong?

Re: How to Understand Things

#53

> This quality of “not stopping at an unsatisfactory answer” deserves some examination. > This requires a lot of intrinsic motivation, because it’s so hard; so most people simply don’t do it. It also requires self-confidence, persuasiveness, and social power. Without these traits, your attempts to really understand something will be dismissed as "overthinking things" or "trying to understand the universe". Those arou…

There are both extremes, and best not to be at either one of them.

Example: I forget the name of the principle, but in mathematics the statement "P implies Q" is considered true if P can never be true. As an example, let P be "George Washington was a woman" and Q be "Queen Elizabeth is a man". Then the statement "If GW was a woman, then QE is a man" is considered to be a true statement.

I have a friend who refuses to accept that such a statement should be considered "true". And he has put off studying real analysis until he can learn enough logic theory to convince himself on the validity of accepting such statements as true. I do not think he'll ever get to study real analysis, because he is full of "No! I need to understand this really really well before proceeding!" statements.

It's a fine approach if you have an infinite amount of time.

The other issue, as another commenter pointed out: It's very difficult to measure progress in thought. The mind is great at fooling itself, and not until you try to solve real problems (or discuss them with others) will you expose most of the gaps in your mind. The same person in the above anecdote does suffer from this. He definitely puts in effort to learn a lot (and has succeeded), but there are always more things to learn, and he moves on to the next topic before really applying what he has learned. As someone who talks to him often, it's really hard to tell if he understands. He is the classic case of "I'm sure I can solve problems when I need to, with a bit of review".

At the other extreme, of course, are people who are not really that motivated to understand. They are satisfied if they get the answer at the back of the book. You won't get far with just that.

> If you don't resist them you'll end up moving forward despite feeling confused, sometimes completely. You'll then end up pissing people off when you execute too slowly or fail (in their eyes, intentionally).

This sounds more like an issue at work, and your experience is fairly universal - most jobs I've worked at have it. In my experience, understanding things well is sadly not valued on the job. They want you to "execute", and want you to minimize the time you spend learning. And of course, they would rather hire someone else instead of ensuring your proper learning/training.

Re: How to Understand Things

#54
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I suspect lots of people go through the entire education system like this. +1. it took me a couple years after getting kicked out of college to get my head sorted out to the point where I felt like I could "think" again I think one of the most harmful things about schooling is the way it imposes a tracked structure on learning. it demarcates knowledge into discrete subjects and sets up a linear progression through t…

Our school is poisonous (can tell for France), if not evil. It become crystal clear after reading Celine Alvarez. Not sure if she got translated yet. In english, but older you also have Alfie Kohn, but I haven't read him. When reading Celine, one understand that children are natural born learner, and there is no effort needed to make them learn stuff. Our school model is industrial production of objects. Thinking hum…

Check out Célestin Freinet too (also untranslated in English AFAIK)

Re: How to Understand Things

#57

Great post. Personal anecdote: I don't think I really understood anything in school, but I was decent at going through the motions of carrying out certain methods and recalling certain facts when I needed to. I went on to study Maths at university, and for most of my first year, I had the same surface level "methods + facts" knowledge that got me through school. After some studying, I could recite definitions and the…

The university I went to offered open book/note exams for almost all courses. It literally didn't even matter how much you memorized... open book tests didn't make anything easier. you need to understand or fail.

I'm not into showing off ranking or pedigree but I do genuinely believe that the higher the pedigree your school the more likely the exams will be harder and require total understanding and even creativity over rote memorization.

The reason is because memorization is trivial. Students able to get into any top school will likely all easily achieve full score on an ordinary tests. The professors at top schools need to make these tests brutally hard in order to produce a bell curve.

I literally had one new professor at my school actually give a mid term that was what would ordinarily be called fair in any other school or college... but the entire class ended up getting nearly full score.

He realized his mistake and the final was way, way harder.

Re: How to Understand Things

#58

> This quality of “not stopping at an unsatisfactory answer” deserves some examination. > This requires a lot of intrinsic motivation, because it’s so hard; so most people simply don’t do it. It also requires self-confidence, persuasiveness, and social power. Without these traits, your attempts to really understand something will be dismissed as "overthinking things" or "trying to understand the universe". Those arou…

I want to add - habits like that are great to pick up, and fine tune, when you're in college.

More so if you're a college student that can focus 100% on your academic life/studies, unburdened by things like work.

EVEN more so if you have great mentors, professors, etc. that can guide you to the right place.

I'm not saying that one CAN NOT do the things above, if you're a busy student with work on the side, and very limited resources as far as mentors or professors go...but I do think that those lucky enough to find themselves in the right positions, are more likely to mature - and quicker.

(And it was no surprise to see that the author is a PPE grad from Oxford)

Re: How to Understand Things

#59

I worry that the way modern society is structured disincentivizes deep understanding. 1. Industry cares more about concrete results, quick execution, and bias for action. 2. Academia cares more about positive results, quantity of published papers, and small achievable experiments over big experiments that might fail. Where are the institutions that care about deep understanding?

i agree. I think this is why I find companies like tesla and spacex exciting. They seem to have set up incentive structures that encourage _both_ quick execution and innovation (which requires deep understanding). One thing he's said that really struck me is that it's _really_ difficult to produce innovation if you tie punishment to failure. People tend to be conservative if they are punished / think they will be pun…

well that's where the whole mantra of "move fast and break things" comes from.

Putting it out there and failing also accelerates you faster to the right answers. If you release it today, it'll take 6 more months of iteration to really get it right. Or maybe you spend an extra 2 years of development to get it "right", but then once you release, you'll still have to spend 3 more months of iteration anyways to get it right.

Re: How to Understand Things

#60

I worry that the way modern society is structured disincentivizes deep understanding. 1. Industry cares more about concrete results, quick execution, and bias for action. 2. Academia cares more about positive results, quantity of published papers, and small achievable experiments over big experiments that might fail. Where are the institutions that care about deep understanding?

Unfortunately deep understanding doesn't put food on the table, concrete actions do.
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