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Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

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Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#241

Post by bergstromm466 »

blackoil wrote: post #26
bergstromm466 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies I really think we have to move to a Commons-based peer production paradigm. Ask yourself, would I want to work for Foxconn assembling $1k iPhones for meager pay? [1] And I am not asking you from a hypothetical standpoint where you pretend to be an Indian in the context of the country India. My question is: would you accept a job starting wo…

I work in a high paying plush job. I will also not work in fields growing crops, neither in a call center, not even in a software service company paying me meagre ₹35 lakh/a. But what doed that mean?

> But what does that mean?

It means that you are in the dying Salariat class.

“At the top are a plutocracy and an elite, earning rentier incomes and wielding enormous political power. Way below them, in income terms, is a salariat, a shrinking group with employment security and an extensive array of non-wage enterprise benefits such as pensions, paid holidays and medical leave.“ [1]

You write:

> I will also not work in fields growing crops, neither in a call center, not even in a software service company paying me meagre ₹35 lakh/a

Guy Standing’s got you:

“If you are in the precariat and become unemployed, and manage to obtain benefits, you face a marginal tax rate of over 80% in taking the sort of low-wage job you are likely to be offered. It may be over 100%. Then you are called rude names if you decline to take such jobs. No member of the salariat would get out of bed if faced by such tax rates, except perhaps to take to the streets to protest. But that is what politicians have forced on the precariat.“ [2]

Your comment makes sense and your view from this privileged position is common for the Salariat.

If you’re interested to explore further, I love Guy’s work in ‘Plunder of the Commons‘, as well as ‘The Corruption of Capitalism: Why Rentiers Thrive and Work Doesn’t Pay’. Looking at the future, the most compassionate vision I’ve found is described (separately) by Kevin Carson, Arthur Brock and Eric Harris-Braun. They describe an open source world through Commons-based peer production. Together with Holochain currencies (mutual credit and reputation currencies [Ceptr.org]), these things make me feel incredibly inspired and hopeful.

[1][2] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/precariat-global-clas...

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#242

Post by DarthGhandi »

tixocloud wrote: post #192
MrsPeaches wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that sounds like an interesting example. Do you have any links to where I can read more about the policies? When was this?

I’ll have to do some research but I can drop you an email once I find some. This was roughly around 80s and 90s. There was a vision to become a first-world nation by 2020.

Malaysia's goals backfired badly on that account. Most of the manufacturing was in Penang, dubbed the Silicon Valley of the East for a while.

Some might remember most of their chips and RAM having "Made in Malaysia" on them through the 90/00's, all from one little area.

But the country squandered the opportunity due to racial divides and the federal government's dislike of the Chinese-Malay majority on the island, a place that very much resembled Singapore's demographics and ironically tried to secede at the same time but was shot down due to the Malaysian government considering it vitally important unlike Singapore (who then went from the one of the poorest countries on Earth to the richest despite absolutely no natural resources), the years after weren't much better, they never really ever wanted it to succeed too much and consistently denied appropriate amounts of federal funding despite the population levels.

It's one of the few states in the country where a leader who isn't ethnic-Malay is legally allowed to get the job. Many don't like this situation as Malay supremacy is written into the constitution and is still deeply engrained into the national psyche. An Indian or Chinese leader makes many uncomfortable.

Fast forward a few decades and there's still a reasonable contingent of manufacturing around but advanced fabs have long left, somewhat surprisingly to more expensive shores like Taiwan, SK and China, nowadays some silicon is made elsewhere and shipped into Malaysia for assembly despite the vast amount of infrastructure, foreign skillsets and supply chains built up over 30 years. At one point long ago one third of all of the exports out of the country was cpus. Quite impressive for a SE Asian country with a large amount of natural resources.

Sandisk and some other storage manufacturers are still around but there's the feeling the island never got to see it's full potential and was never capitalized on.

The government tried to replicate this recently in a more "Malay friendly" province 20km outside of KL renamed as Cyberjaya (literally cybersuccess). It's widely mocked as a failure across the political spectrum to this day, it only ended up housing some DC's utilizing cheap coal fired power in a tropical climate and some international call centers despite huge amounts of government subsidies trying to lure in innovation.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#243

Post by AareyBaba »

naruvimama wrote: post #204

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

Let's be realistic about India's military power.

In 1999, India lost 500 men when they were ordered to charge up the Kargil mountains WWII style even though they had complete air superiority and were backed by a Bofors artillery barrage all while facing an enemy whose long supply lines consisted of men and donkeys hauling ammunition and food for miles up steep mountain sides.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#244

Post by xster »

naruvimama wrote: post #204

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

> the Chinese have been testing it out several times

Are you referencing something specific?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#245

Post by AareyBaba »

xster wrote: post #244
naruvimama wrote: post #204

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

> the Chinese have been testing it out several times Are you referencing something specific?

He is referencing Dokhlam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_China%E2%80%93India_borde... and the current Galwan Valley standoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China%E2%80%93India_skirm....

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#246

Post by xster »

AareyBaba wrote: post #245
xster wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Chinese have been testing it out several times Are you referencing something specific?

He is referencing Dokhlam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_China%E2%80%93India_borde... and the current Galwan Valley standoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China%E2%80%93India_skirm... .

How does the Chinese test the Indians by not crossing the LAC https://www.indiatoday.in/programme/news-today/video/pm-nare... specifically?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#247

Post by [deleted] »

xster wrote: post #246
AareyBaba wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is referencing Dokhlam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_China%E2%80%93India_borde... and the current Galwan Valley standoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China%E2%80%93India_skirm... .

How does the Chinese test the Indians by not crossing the LAC https://www.indiatoday.in/programme/news-today/video/pm-nare... specifically?

[deleted]

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#248

Post by nine_zeros »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #20
kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

India is perfect for global economic growth in general. India has a massive population that has massive consumer needs.

However, they cannot produce everything all by themselves. Partly because of mineral resources, partly because of education and partly because of land crunch.

Which means, when they industrialize more, they need to import more.

Which aids growth of countries exporting to India.

USA used to play that role until recently but cannot take it anymore for various political and non-political reasons. If anything, most of the developed world should be very happy that India is developing the way it is because it aids their own industries.

African countries will get there some day as well, but they would do much much better by having a unified bloc like EU.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#249

Post by naruvimama »

xster wrote: post #246
AareyBaba wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is referencing Dokhlam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_China%E2%80%93India_borde... and the current Galwan Valley standoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China%E2%80%93India_skirm... .

How does the Chinese test the Indians by not crossing the LAC https://www.indiatoday.in/programme/news-today/video/pm-nare... specifically?

The LAC is a buffer zone where the troops patrol but do not setup camps or bring in heavy artillery.

The Chinese setup camps, brought in heavy artillery and diverted/dammed the river in the LAC. This is the region that they have been patrolling, so it is still the buffer zone.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#250

Post by naruvimama »

AareyBaba wrote: post #243
naruvimama wrote: post #204

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

Let's be realistic about India's military power. In 1999, India lost 500 men when they were ordered to charge up the Kargil mountains WWII style even though they had complete air superiority and were backed by a Bofors artillery barrage all while facing an enemy whose long supply lines consisted of men and donkeys hauling ammunition and food for miles up steep mountain sides.

What I meant is that it is the only one in the region big enough to stand up to bullying and sustain a short term war.

The Chinese withdrew from the recent conflicts only because they knew that India wouldn't back down and the Chinese would get a heavy bashing.

It would of course not have happened without the support of the Indian allies on the east coast of China and the US.

In Kargil Pakistani troops had captured all the strategic high locations, and fortified bunkers. There are some answers here, https://qr.ae/pNKfPI

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