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Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

greaterwrong.com

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Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

Is it really worth it to consult anymore? Considering some FANG engineers are pulling down $300,000 to $400,000 USD? That translates to between $144/hour to $192/hour, respectively. Even senior engineers at other non-FANG companies, that makes less than that, still has a high hourly rate. And what ends up killing you, are taxes, either self employed taxes, S-Corp taxes, or health care costs. The health care insurance…

> Is it really worth it to consult anymore? Considering some FANG engineers are pulling down $300,000 to $400,000 USD?

Good question. It's tough. Anyone who has 5+ years of experience and works at one of FAANG or Lyft, Uber, Square, Stripe, Airbnb, etc in NYC/SFBA/SEA is almost certainly earning $300k+, yes (probably closer to $400k now).

That being said if you are qualified to work for one of those companies and they're paying you for expertise in a specialty, you definitely have the technical skills needed to earn more as a solo consultant. For example, leading projects in distributed systems as an L6/E6 engineer at Google/Facebook would neatly set you up to start a boutique consultancy like Jepsen/Aphyr.

At that point whether or not you earn more becomes a question of your network, because you have everything else going for you. Very experienced security consultants can also make $500k+ at a 70% utilization rate by charging as much as the larger shops, doing better work and pocketing the spread on the weekly rate.

Speaking as a former consultant who earned more than a FAANG salary at equivalent years of experience: full time work trades off autonomy and uncertainty for lower but relatively guaranteed pay. You're never paid what you're actually worth at these companies, in the sense of value contributed. You're paid according to the cost of labor in your area.

Sorry to ramble, this is something I like chatting about.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#52
post #39
post #8

The article is missing mathematicians who do not publicize their results. These would mainly be mathematicians working for agencies like GCHQ, NSA, etc. If you want to work on certain math problems, don't mind working for the government, and don't care about being published you can get good jobs with these kinds of agencies.

Financial markets as well.

I know of a boutique proprietary trading firm wherein a researcher solved an open problem in probability but won't publish the results because it's integral to a trading strategy. That always gives me a chuckle :)

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#53
>> How many mathematical, biological, and physical discoveries would never have been made, if it weren’t for robotics (invented by someone with no higher education) and cheap compute (provided by the business sector)?

Who does the article mean, by "robotics (invented by someone with no higher education)"? Wikipedia tells me that [in] 1948, Norbert Wiener formulated the principles of cybernetics, the basis of practical robotics [1], but Wiener had a PhD from Harvard [2] and certainly much education, at all levels.

The wikipedia article on robotics has a number of other names of people who contributed in various ways to robotics from ancient to modern times, but I'm not sure who fits the article's description. Did Heron of Alexandria have a "higher education", sensu stricto?

____________

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotics

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#54

>> How many mathematical, biological, and physical discoveries would never have been made, if it weren’t for robotics (invented by someone with no higher education) and cheap compute (provided by the business sector)? Who does the article mean, by "robotics (invented by someone with no higher education)"? Wikipedia tells me that [in] 1948, Norbert Wiener formulated the principles of cybernetics, the basis of practica…

It's really unclear who they could mean. A few of the people in the History of Robotics Wikipedia article[0] didn't have PhDs[1], but seemingly all of them had some higher education. Maybe they are referring to someone who wrote fiction about the idea of robots before robotics really existed: Karel Čapek (who came up with the word "robot") had a PhD though[2]. Perhaps it refers to L. Frank Baum, as he appears to have had no higher education[3].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_robots

[1] See William Grey Walter for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Grey_Walter

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_%C4%8Capek

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum#Childhood_and_ea...

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really worth it to consult anymore? Considering some FANG engineers are pulling down $300,000 to $400,000 USD? That translates to between $144/hour to $192/hour, respectively. Even senior engineers at other non-FANG companies, that makes less than that, still has a high hourly rate. And what ends up killing you, are taxes, either self employed taxes, S-Corp taxes, or health care costs. The health care insurance…

> Is it really worth it to consult anymore? Considering some FANG engineers are pulling down $300,000 to $400,000 USD? Good question. It's tough. Anyone who has 5+ years of experience and works at one of FAANG or Lyft, Uber, Square, Stripe, Airbnb, etc in NYC/SFBA/SEA is almost certainly earning $300k+, yes (probably closer to $400k now). That being said if you are qualified to work for one of those companies and the…

Thanks for your input. Industry insights like these are gold.

The reason I ask is because it’s starting to appear, to not be worthwhile anymore. Yes, some people want the autonomy and independence. But it seems securing the gig itself is tough.

For large companies, with millions of dollars budgeted for a project, they seem to want an off-the-shelf system from a vendor, for a technology qualification selection, with another large company behind it. Because that customer “feels” safer that the larger vendor will not go out of business. It’s the old adage: “No one ever got fired for selecting IBM/Microsoft”.

So, it seems unlikely that a company will hire an expensive consultant, to do something, when they can hire cheaper senior level programmers, and put them on the clock full time.

Granted, some companies do operate at that level, where they try to bring in a specialist to work on something, and get rid of them after a few months. But, they tend to hire these specialists via a contracting agency, where the specialist is deemed an employee of that agency. Hence, the specialist here is not really a consultant, but an employee of a 3rd party. And instead of getting consulting rates, that employee just gets a normal hourly salary.

Also, this allows the customer company, to not have a full time staff, and allows them to easily get rid of people, without violating any lay-off laws. Or having to make some embarrassing lay-off announcement publicly. They just silently kill their staff. Although I heard some states like California, is trying to crack down on this, with new laws, but I’m sure companies will find some ways around it.

Although now, it seems the most expensive hired guns, are the new experts in some deep learning library, or someone pawning off knowledge in some AI or Machine Learning solution.

This appears to be the new valuable gold rush. So if you’ve kept up on this, then it’s time to sell shovels to the desperate prospectors.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#56

This doesn’t prove that PhD is needed. This just proves that people prefer to get paid.

The author clearly articulated that it is needed in practical terms. That is, empirically (according to their small sample) people who don't do a PhD don't feature in the list of notable maths achievements.

Why then did he only mention money once in passing? Sounds like a very practical concern to me.
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