Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems? • Hacker News Board

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#41

Post by canjobear » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #24

jokoon wrote: post #17

There's a difference between a degree and an education. The problem is how we consider the destination (the degree), to be a proof of competence and knowledge, while it's really the journey (the education) which actually matters. That's why degrees should be abolished, and a certificate of education be given to the student as long as he/she is present. School should not act as a social filter. As long as you go to sc…

I have a degree, and I agree with you. At least for software engineering. What there could be is a standardised test, that is a national or international standard, not linked to a uni. Learn to program and do the test and that is your credential. Maybe it costs $200 or something. That way you can skip uni, self teach but be able to show you can code without employers needing to find novel ways to evaluate. Just spitb…

Similar to the bar exam for lawyers. It used to be you could be a lawyer by passing the bar even if you had no degree.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#42

Post by ludamad » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #20

bo1024 wrote: post #9

The article seems to treat a PhD merely as a credential - maybe assuming that a person would be equally capable with or without it. Why? The whole point of a PhD in math is to learn to do effective research in math and there are almost no substitutes. This seems like being surprised that so many professional violinists took violin lessons. (I admit my bias here but still.)

The same mindset occurs a lot in the software engineering world, and I think it's somewhat baffling and potentially dangerous. I find software engineering quite difficult , and I am relatively intelligent, studied computer science at top universities, and have decades of experience where I learned a ton. So I'm all for coding bootcamps, but we wouldn't expect someone who went to a violin bootcamp for 3 or 4 months to…

"scratch the surface of programming, which nonetheless equips you for real world jobs" could possibly be fair to say about a bootcamp. It certainly filled a certain demand, although one has to wonder if better software won't just eat 4 month configuration++ bootcamps

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#43

Post by nottorp » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

If you're interested enough to do math research, you're likely to get a PhD in mathematics because it's, well, full time math research?

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#44

Post by black_puppydog » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #35

black_puppydog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* and don't care about why these results will go unpublished

Or you are comfortable with why they will go unpublished.

of course, or that

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#45

Post by blackrock » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

formercoder wrote: post #12

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

If u were gifted at math and wanted to do it all the time, would you a) get paid for doing it with peers while getting a PhD or b) work a job as a janitor to support yourself while doing math. With the amount of depth modern math has, i think to achieve results you need to be able to do it full time, so getting a PhD seems to be the most logical route for aspiring mathematicians. Not to mention that most pure math do…

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

Is it really worth it to consult anymore? Considering some FANG engineers are pulling down $300,000 to $400,000 USD?

That translates to between $144/hour to $192/hour, respectively.

Even senior engineers at other non-FANG companies, that makes less than that, still has a high hourly rate.

And what ends up killing you, are taxes, either self employed taxes, S-Corp taxes, or health care costs. The health care insurance costs are perverted, if you don’t have an employer paying for it.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#46

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

btrettel wrote: post #34

formercoder wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

I've thought about this general approach for funding my own research. Unfortunately it seems hard to do in practice. If the goal is consulting specifically then it's going to take a while to build up the client base needed. I'm just starting consulting myself and I don't expect this to get me more than a couple thousand dollars over the next year. Generalizing a bit, one could make money running a business, consultin…

I've known people who (typically) transitioned from being a full-time employee to part-time. Though at that point, they're usually classified as a contractor which tends to have implications for bonuses, RSUs, etc.

I agree with your assessment of consulting. I'd add that, except under special conditions, you pretty much have to keep your hand in or you lose touch with current practices etc. Yes, there are people who are real experts in some specialty. They can semi-retire and "parachute in" for a week to solve some problem that no one else can. But that is, as I say, pretty much the definition of a special case.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#47

Post by seibelj » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

ludamad wrote: post #42

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same mindset occurs a lot in the software engineering world, and I think it's somewhat baffling and potentially dangerous. I find software engineering quite difficult , and I am relatively intelligent, studied computer science at top universities, and have decades of experience where I learned a ton. So I'm all for coding bootcamps, but we wouldn't expect someone who went to a violin bootcamp for 3 or 4 months to…

"scratch the surface of programming, which nonetheless equips you for real world jobs" could possibly be fair to say about a bootcamp. It certainly filled a certain demand, although one has to wonder if better software won't just eat 4 month configuration++ bootcamps

I think a better use of coding boot camps would be to go deep in a very specific DSL. Like learn how to do Salesforce or Excel programming deeply. A lot of companies actually need this to improve processes, and restricted environments reduce the cognitive load a novice needs to become productive.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#48

Post by cgshep » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

formercoder wrote: post #12

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

If u were gifted at math and wanted to do it all the time, would you a) get paid for doing it with peers while getting a PhD or b) work a job as a janitor to support yourself while doing math. With the amount of depth modern math has, i think to achieve results you need to be able to do it full time, so getting a PhD seems to be the most logical route for aspiring mathematicians. Not to mention that most pure math do…

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

Sadly, this omits a hard truth that impactful research requires near-total dedication. The payoff is highly non-linear versus time invested; conducting research part-time is a recipe for underperformance, which is (partly) why research funders often contractually cap the hours one may work externally while a staff researcher or PhD student.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#49

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #24

jokoon wrote: post #17

There's a difference between a degree and an education. The problem is how we consider the destination (the degree), to be a proof of competence and knowledge, while it's really the journey (the education) which actually matters. That's why degrees should be abolished, and a certificate of education be given to the student as long as he/she is present. School should not act as a social filter. As long as you go to sc…

I have a degree, and I agree with you. At least for software engineering. What there could be is a standardised test, that is a national or international standard, not linked to a uni. Learn to program and do the test and that is your credential. Maybe it costs $200 or something. That way you can skip uni, self teach but be able to show you can code without employers needing to find novel ways to evaluate. Just spitb…

[deleted]

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#50

Post by blackrock » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #17

There's a difference between a degree and an education. The problem is how we consider the destination (the degree), to be a proof of competence and knowledge, while it's really the journey (the education) which actually matters. That's why degrees should be abolished, and a certificate of education be given to the student as long as he/she is present. School should not act as a social filter. As long as you go to sc…

> It's up to companies to really check if someone if competent and has the knowledge

Except that the way these companies do this is to throw stupid LEET code questions at you. And expect you to solve it in 10 minutes, otherwise you’re not smart enough to handle their boring CRUD cruft.