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Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

greaterwrong.com

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Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#21

Post by mam2 »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

If u were gifted at math and wanted to do it all the time, would you a) get paid for doing it with peers while getting a PhD or b) work a job as a janitor to support yourself while doing math. With the amount of depth modern math has, i think to achieve results you need to be able to do it full time, so getting a PhD seems to be the most logical route for aspiring mathematicians. Not to mention that most pure math do…

Yes phd is just a way of making time in your mife for what you like. The way you use that time is then up to you.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#22

Post by quickthrower2 »

formercoder wrote: post #12
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

If u were gifted at math and wanted to do it all the time, would you a) get paid for doing it with peers while getting a PhD or b) work a job as a janitor to support yourself while doing math. With the amount of depth modern math has, i think to achieve results you need to be able to do it full time, so getting a PhD seems to be the most logical route for aspiring mathematicians. Not to mention that most pure math do…

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

I think you would miss out on having a supervisor and peers to learn from. You’d need to replace that. Might be possible with IRC etc. but I don’t know.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#23

Post by unishark »

black_puppydog wrote: post #14
DanBC wrote: post #8

The article is missing mathematicians who do not publicize their results. These would mainly be mathematicians working for agencies like GCHQ, NSA, etc. If you want to work on certain math problems, don't mind working for the government, and don't care about being published you can get good jobs with these kinds of agencies.

* and don't care about why these results will go unpublished

meaning that everyone who works for the government would agree they are only enabling bad things?

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#24

Post by quickthrower2 »

jokoon wrote: post #17

There's a difference between a degree and an education. The problem is how we consider the destination (the degree), to be a proof of competence and knowledge, while it's really the journey (the education) which actually matters. That's why degrees should be abolished, and a certificate of education be given to the student as long as he/she is present. School should not act as a social filter. As long as you go to sc…

I have a degree, and I agree with you. At least for software engineering.

What there could be is a standardised test, that is a national or international standard, not linked to a uni. Learn to program and do the test and that is your credential. Maybe it costs $200 or something.

That way you can skip uni, self teach but be able to show you can code without employers needing to find novel ways to evaluate.

Just spitballing!

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#25

Post by sushshshsh »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #22
formercoder wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

I think you would miss out on having a supervisor and peers to learn from. You’d need to replace that. Might be possible with IRC etc. but I don’t know.

Imagine learning from a supervisor, yikes. It is almost always the individual contributors who have to explain things to the supervisor, who might as well be a child at that point.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#26

Post by dmd »

sushshshsh wrote: post #25
quickthrower2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you would miss out on having a supervisor and peers to learn from. You’d need to replace that. Might be possible with IRC etc. but I don’t know.

Imagine learning from a supervisor, yikes. It is almost always the individual contributors who have to explain things to the supervisor, who might as well be a child at that point.

I’m sorry your PhD supervisor was so terrible. I promise you that’s not universal. I typically learned more in any given ten minutes with mine than in a week with anyone else.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#27

Post by AnHonestComment »

bo1024 wrote: post #9

The article seems to treat a PhD merely as a credential - maybe assuming that a person would be equally capable with or without it. Why? The whole point of a PhD in math is to learn to do effective research in math and there are almost no substitutes. This seems like being surprised that so many professional violinists took violin lessons. (I admit my bias here but still.)

Many SDEs I know spend years working on mathematics (eg, implementing economic models) — and the job of being an SDE is being an applied type theorist.

To me, your comment is the classic classism that engineers have nothing to contribute to science.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#28

Post by graycat »

mcguire wrote: post #19
graycat wrote: post #11

Hint, quiet, don't let this out, a Ph.D. is not really a knowledge degree but a research degree. From that degree on, in blunt terms, everyone knows that no one can carry the whole library around between their ears and so no longer much cares what you know but cares what you can create! There can be and are some exceptions, but overwhelmingly successful research in math requires the background of a Ph.D. for (1) find…

There is also (3): individual guidance and instruction on how to solve that sort of problem.

Yes. I considered saying something like your (3) but thought that in the interest of simplicity and brevity (a joke!) my

(2) having the knowledge to attack it.

would be enough.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#29

Post by andrewstuart2 »

varjag wrote: post #13
formercoder wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s probably a middle ground given how little phds are paid. Consult as a software engineer for 1/3 time, make double janitor comp, 2/3 time on research.

It never ends at 1/3 time.

I feel like at 1/3 time you'd spend most or all of it catching up on what happened in the 2/3 of the week you missed. Unless you're not on a team.

Re: Was a PhD necessary to solve outstanding math problems?

#30

Post by beefhash »

black_puppydog wrote: post #14
DanBC wrote: post #8

The article is missing mathematicians who do not publicize their results. These would mainly be mathematicians working for agencies like GCHQ, NSA, etc. If you want to work on certain math problems, don't mind working for the government, and don't care about being published you can get good jobs with these kinds of agencies.

* and don't care about why these results will go unpublished

* and don't have anything on your track record making it impossible to land this kind of job due to the security clearance required
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