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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#791

Post by saagarjha »

abstrakraft wrote: post #650
hyko wrote: post #125

Here’s the document explaining how it’s physically impossible to use the microphone when the MacBook lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/... Where is the equivalent document explaining how it’s physically impossible for the camera to be active without the green LED lighting up?

They also claim that if you add a (MFI-compliant) case to the iPad, and close it, that this similarly disconnects the microphone. The simplest mechanism to do this sounds complicated enough that it reduces my confidence in the mechanism. The point of half the comments in this thread is that a hardware interlock mechanism needs to be dead simple. This sounds like a step in the wrong direction.

I believe the one for iPad is a bit confusing, as I think it has software invoked. Namely, when a case closes and iPad goes to sleep I think the OS tells the hardware to physically disconnect. (You’ll notice the wording is a bit different for Macs.)

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#792

Post by Kliment »

happytoexplain wrote: post #140
gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

Exactly this. I use one for these reasons, in descending order of practical concern: 1. I don't want to broadcast myself during a meeting when I'm not prepared, or perhaps leave a meeting open by accident. 2. If a bad actor does access my camera, I won't necessarily notice the indicator light, especially if I'm not actively using the computer at that moment. 3. I don't trust the indicator light to be permanently unha…

Same on all counts, though I went a step further and wired in a microminiature slide switch to completely power off the camera. That way applications see "no camera" unless I go out of my way to power it on. I painted the "on" side of the switch in retroreflective paint so I can see when it's on at a glance too, whether the camera is in use or not. This was on a thinkpad though, I doubt macos would tolerate a disappearing camera.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#793

Post by saagarjha »

chuckleMuscle wrote: post #432

A person I with used to work for the UK’s Atomic Weapons Establishment. Apparently their former employer’s preferred method of disabling the camera on a MacBook was to break the lens using a nail and hammer...

Isn’t the lens behind the screen glass? How did they break the lens without shattering the screen too?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#794

Post by pabs3 »

vngzs wrote: post #30

If you're going to cover it, use a sticker, like the EFF stickers here[0]. They're reusable, so you can move it to the side for meetings. I used a hard plastic MongoDB-branded sliding camera cover on a couple laptops[1], and its presence appears to have contributed to backlight bleed like this[2]. [0]: https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii [1]: https://www.amazon.com/C-Slide-Sliding-Computers-Chr…

The stickers that grocery stores have on apples, avocados and other fruit is also useful for this.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#795

Post by Drdrdrq »

jachee wrote: post #363
iso947 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I leave my laptop in my hotel room while I go out for dinner, so point 3 is valid.

If I'm going to dinner where I can't take my backpack, I put mine in the safe. Can recommend. Physical security > *.

The safe that hotel provided for you? Agree that it's better than nothing though.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#797

Post by saagarjha »

bigwavedave wrote: post #630
saagarjha wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original iSight had a hundred times more depth and also happened to be an external camera. Bringing it up here is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, it's information that allows any reasonable person to conclude that Apple implemented a solution before and has since decided to exchange that simple and effective failsafe for a marginally thinner product. I can't physically control whether I have a naked camera pointed at me all day but hey, at least my laptop can fit into a manilla envelope, right? Right? Totally worth it.

It’s irrelevant to bring up iSight’s shutter because they are totally different products. It was literally hundreds of times larger than the cameras we’re talking about here; so it makes no sense to expect a shutter on these just because iSight had them more than a decade ago. That’s like saying that a racecar should have folding seats because a minivan might have it and they are both vehicles.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#798

Post by saagarjha »

symlinkk wrote: post #565
neltnerb wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I'm a little surprised Apple didn't follow the Thinkpad approach of simply having a sliding piece with an aperture that extremely obviously blocks the camera. Surely Apple can't seriously think their users would be confused by this and complain... I don't think my desktop computer's webcam is likely to get hacked either but I'm still going to unplug it when I'm not using it. Complex systems are hard to secure…

They probably don't do that because it implicitly says "we don't trust our software to be secure"

But they have hardware disconnects for some of their sensors.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#799

Post by nick-sf »

This could be mitigated simply by adding other pads/spacers with the same thickness around the screen bezel. This would reduce cracking chances, though maybe pressure right in the center top-bottom and left-right could crack the screen due to the gap between the screen and keyboard.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#800

Post by kebman »

Yet another reason to buy something better than a MacBook. :) Don't get me wrong, I used to love Macs. But they really started screwing their own prosumers, ohhh, back in 2011 when they made Final Cut Pro X into a "for dummies" application, rather than the professional tool it used to be (this is a discussion all on its own btw, and while it's not clear cut, the change wasn't welcome at the time). From then on things have mostly gone down hill. That year marks a clear change in their philosophy, from prosumer-made products and to a far more consumer and fad-based focus as a "luxury" brand. Except the whole premise for buying Apple products used to be that they were better for professional production environments. I really hope they'll get back to this tried and proven mode, instead of what they're doing now.
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