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Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

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Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#111

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

alwillis wrote: post #59
osrec wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually. Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed? Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not t…

>If we are to believe Apple cares about its users, then it makes perfect sense why they don't allow slower, less power efficient, less secure and less private web engines available on iOS.

Woah![1]

> "But shouldn't this be up to the user?" some will say ask. Yes, but to a point. There are already so many ways on the web to shoot yourself in the foot.

That sounds exactly like what a dictator would say when asked why the citizens are not allowed to vote.

[1]https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/10/365-days-late...

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#112

Post by tatersolid »

judah wrote: post #33
no_gravity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping the user logged in is not the issue. A PWA can inject a unique ID into the installation in various ways. The problem is the data. Imagine a text editor where all your text documents are gone after you cleared the data of a different app, the browser. I wrote a fitness app as a PWA some time ago and its pretty annoying to download all the instruction videos again every time you clear your "browser data". Plus…

> "Imagine a text editor where all your text documents are gone after you cleared the browser data" One way to address that issue is the native file system access APIs[0] coming soon, available today in Chrome Canary and Edge Canary. There, you'd be able to save your documents to the user's file system, just like a native app would. Those files will be exempt from any browser data clearing. > all infos about which ex…

> There, you'd be able to save your documents to the user's file system, just like a native app would

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#113

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

millstone wrote: post #95
osrec wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

Apple is making the right decision here. My iOS device has never once shown me "this website requires Chrome." I get to use the mobile web without needing Google. And Apple is the only reason why. Maybe some day, web apps will become so undeniably awesome that Safari's position is untenable. But the agitation is not coming from iOS users missing out on awesome PWAs. Instead it's web developers, who are just annoyed t…

>My iOS device has never once shown me "this website requires Chrome."

Why would any PWA say that, if Safari had proper support for PWA?

>Instead it's web developers, who are just annoyed that they have to actually respect the conventions of the platform they're building for.

Say the developer is from a village in India or Nigeria who has just a Raspberry Pi to develop apps -

•What if the developer didn't have thousands of dollars to invest in new equipments just to develop for iOS?

•What if the developer wasn't able pay $99 every year for the Apple developer license?

•What if the just didn't want to give 30% cut to Apple from the revenue each time?

For all the times Apple uses 'Equality' in its marketing, the Apple platform & ecosystem restrictions clearly seems to be aimed at the privileged, pushing the agenda that 'Privileged is good' and 'Everyone should aim at being privileged'.

Less empathetic would respond, 'Well that's not Apple's fault that they aren't privileged'; Well then, we have to go back into colonial imperialism & American capitalism to prove why they aren't privileged in the first place and why Apple holds a responsibility every time it uses 'Equality, Human etc.' in it's marketing; which would be digressing from the topic.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#114

Post by DangitBobby »

millstone wrote: post #105
skrowl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess you're on iOS where you don't actually have Firefox (or any other actual browsers besides Safari). Firefox on iOS (like all iOS browsers) is required by App store rules to basically just skin Safari. On Android, Firefox is the MOST usable browser.

Then why doesn't anyone use it? Honest question - Mobile Firefox stands at less than half a percentage point marketshare.

Just speculation on my part but... On Android, the default (Chrome) is good enough that most people won't think of trying something else, and on iOS Safari is really your only choice anyway.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#115

Post by DangitBobby »

k__ wrote: post #82
notatoad wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find Firefox Preview (with ublock origin enabled) to be the most usable of all the mobile browsers i've tried. Chrome has a few nice things going for it, but i'd rather have ublock.

I liked FFP's main UI, but that was it. Major websites wouldn't work properly (Twitter) and sharing images directly from a website (memes are my bread and butter) also didn't work. I use Chrome with NextDNS on Android.

I have no issues with those things on preview now. It has been a tiny bit unstable but it's getting better

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#116

Post by rubber_duck »

skrowl wrote: post #85
k__ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, would be cool. Firefox is currently unusable on mobile :/

I'm going to guess you're on iOS where you don't actually have Firefox (or any other actual browsers besides Safari). Firefox on iOS (like all iOS browsers) is required by App store rules to basically just skin Safari. On Android, Firefox is the MOST usable browser.

Surfing on Firefox Android ATM, and it has the same issues it has on the desktop of sites glitching out - just even harder to work arround on mobile.

I'm car shopping and downloading specs from multiple dealers straight out doesn't work - the downloaded PDF won't open, works like a charm in Chrome.

Stuff like this is why I suspect most non tech people would revert to Chrome pretty fast.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#117

Post by tannhaeuser »

osrec wrote: post #66
alwillis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually. Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed? Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not t…

Oh man, not sure where to begin with responding to this. I'm not saying Google is incredible (my opinion is quite the contrary actually). However, I am saying Apple is holding the web back, in a fairly annoying way, for developers. The fact that they are a rich corporate does not mean they always will be, or that they're conducting their business in the best way possible. There are plenty of examples of rich tech bus…

"Holding the web back" lol. What the web is today, is coming straight out of Google's playbook, with WHATWG just a miniscule puppet organization consisting of Chrome devs promoting whatever Chrome does as standard. It's a scam to subvert what once was the web into a monopolistic tracking network and a 20 year project to morph a document viewer into the most absurd, power-inefficient, and clunky app platform imaginable that still can't do most anything that you'd want a smartphone to do, such as phoning. The narrative that big brother Google protects us from evil proprietary vendors somewhere lost its credibility; today, we need protection from Google more than anything else. Almost all new HTML5 APIs and even CSS can and will be used for fingerprinting so need to be rolled back or switched off anyway.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#118

Post by realusername »

millstone wrote: post #105
skrowl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess you're on iOS where you don't actually have Firefox (or any other actual browsers besides Safari). Firefox on iOS (like all iOS browsers) is required by App store rules to basically just skin Safari. On Android, Firefox is the MOST usable browser.

Then why doesn't anyone use it? Honest question - Mobile Firefox stands at less than half a percentage point marketshare.

Play Store licensing requires Chrome to be installed

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#119

Post by pjmlp »

dmitriid wrote: post #73
davrous wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can thanks to the Native File System API coming with Project Fugu: https://web.dev/native-file-system/ . Available via origin trial for now but it should be soon released more broadly.

Have any other browser vendors expressed any interest in this? I see from the link that Chrome is already doing an "origin trial" even if the spec itself isn't complete. So, why would it be "released more broadly". Or is it the Constructible Stylesheets again? When both Safari and Mozilla said "no", but Chrome released them anyway?

I am typing this from Firefox, but the reality is that other vendors nowaydays mostly means Safari, everyone else is using Chrome engine and Firefox numbers diminish every year.

The same crowd that now complains about Google, was worshipping Chrome, talking about how its its developer tools are, the multiprocess architecture, handling hundreds of open tabs (still to understand this one),.....

So if the Web is turning into ChromeOS, they only have themselves to thank for.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#120

Post by pjmlp »

mandeeeeeep wrote: post #46

I remember when the microsoft app store on windows 8 were a bunch of websites wrapped into an app. It really lowered the quality of apps and the overall appeal of the windows app store. That being said, how will PWAs get around the apple and google requirements that apps downloadable from their stores where they mention apps can't just be a website wrapped into an app?

That clearly isn't the case for Google, as you can package PWAs for the store.

https://developers.google.com/web/android/trusted-web-activi...

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