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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#591

Post by eanzenberg »

bravoetch wrote: post #526
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always notice when the light goes on, because it's close to my screen, and effectively a form of movement in a place I don't usually see it. It's also quite bright on Apple computers. Is it different for other people?

>> Is it different for other people? Yes. Many people leave the laptop on, and wander off to pee. Or they're jerking off with their eyes closed. Or they are using a different computer at the same time in a data-center. Or all of the above at once.

Many people do the same things and forget to cover their webcam with a piece of plastic. What’s your point?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#592

Post by waterhouse »

saagarjha wrote: post #561
solarkraft wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want your equipment to be verifiably secure? Boy, wait until you find about what's possible manipulating PCB or processor designs (the Bloomberg fiction piece "The big Hack" illustrates what would be possible with just PCB manipulation). Or firmware or anything else proprietary running with elevated rights (normal ones are already enough to cause a lot of damage on most systems). All you can do is reduce attack s…

A fiction piece isn't a great demonstration of anything, really.

Well, what got it declared fiction was "a broad search doesn't turn up good evidence that this has been done", rather than "experts agree this is obviously impossible". So the reaction to the piece did demonstrate something.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#593

Post by eanzenberg »

redisman wrote: post #508
nojito wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The camera can't turn on without power going to the light. The user controls which apps get to turn on the camera...no one else.

Would you notice it if it was one frame every 15 minutes for example? As for the second point, sure. In theory. If there’s no bugs or vulnerabilities or backdoors

The led doesnt work that way. Stays on for 3s min

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#594

Post by amelius »

milesvp wrote: post #139
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is in the design: by not providing a hardware switch, all we have is trust. As we can see from the past, unfortunatly it's not enough.

Just so you know, switches in something as complicated as a laptop have a good chance at being connected to a processor , with firmware being the thing that determines what the switch does. So you still need trust, even with a physical switch. Source: write firmware for a living, and write drivers for physical switches.

It should be implemented with the same robustness as if the user's life depended on it.

As an analogy, you wouldn't implement a car brake by running it through some firmware. Instead, you'd preferably make a direct physical connection between the pedal and the actual brake.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#595

Post by dahfizz »

hpen wrote: post #576
airstrike wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the LED somehow gets disabled, stops working, or something like it. It's not like the tape is ineffective, so why does Apple care if people use it?

Apple hardwired the LED to the camera. It can't be disabled.

How do you know? And how do you know there is not a bug in the electrical design?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#596

Post by tripletao »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #541
mirimir wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple makes such high-end stuff, and is marketing on privacy, why can't they spring for hardware switches? Pine64 does, and they're by no means high-end. Not by price, anyway.

I don't think the price of a hardware switch would be a concern for Apple, but the size would. A hardware switch would take up space. Apple broke their keyboards to shave a couple millimeters of thickness off their laptops.

The Pinebook Pro uses a key combination, managed by the keyboard firmware. That's not quite as good as a hardware switch, but it shrinks the attack surface considerably.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#597

Post by shbooms »

hpen wrote: post #576
airstrike wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the LED somehow gets disabled, stops working, or something like it. It's not like the tape is ineffective, so why does Apple care if people use it?

Apple hardwired the LED to the camera. It can't be disabled.

Hardwired or not, it doesn't mean the LED can't be disabled by malware:

https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#598

Post by stevenwliao »

valuearb wrote: post #544
stevenwliao wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The light only tells them after their camera turns on, so it doesn't address their concern.

Neither does a camera cover given no one will remember to always close it after calls. The hardwired status light is far better, you know as soon as you’ve been hacked, and well before they are likely to see anything compromising.

Privacy isn't binary. It's a spectrum. A light and sometimes remembering to close the camera cover is better than a light and no cover.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#599

Post by ekianjo »

kick wrote: post #543
ekianjo wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they designed it poorly without understanding end users?

A minority of end users cares enough to actually put tape over their webcam.

Surely a minority, but it's steadily increasing even among non-technical folks. I see it all the time nowadays.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#600

Post by Wingman4l7 »

apecat wrote: post #580
Wingman4l7 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The handy-dandy T2 also helps to soft-brick laptops, destroying that pesky second-hand market! Poor Apple had already destroyed that for iPhones and iPads but just couldn't do it for their laptops, until now ! https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akw558/apples-t2-security...

In terms of giving some kind of supply chain assurance it's not a bad idea by itself. I'd prefer a non-bricking variant with a red boot screen warning about non-original spare parts, or something to that effect.

Sure, but it's way too tempting and too short of a step from that, to "Sorry, this device won't work with unauthorized third-party parts... for your safety. Please shell out $$ for repairs from an Authorized Retailer, if you can find one and if they offer them."
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