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Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

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Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#71

Post by dmitriid »

osrec wrote: post #66
alwillis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually. Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed? Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not t…

Oh man, not sure where to begin with responding to this. I'm not saying Google is incredible (my opinion is quite the contrary actually). However, I am saying Apple is holding the web back, in a fairly annoying way, for developers. The fact that they are a rich corporate does not mean they always will be, or that they're conducting their business in the best way possible. There are plenty of examples of rich tech bus…

> I'm not saying Google is incredible (my opinion is quite the contrary actually). However, I am saying Apple is holding the web back, in a fairly annoying way, for developers.

Right. Because Google, who dominates the entire web standards spectrum, is known for creating well thought-out, well-designed APIs that take into consideration concerns and criticism, and thinking long-term of the web as a whole.

Oh wait, they don't. Up to and including the point where both Mozilla and Safari are saying they won't implement certain functionality because of glaring holes in the design, and Chrome not only shipping the features, but making them GA.

Oh, and yes. Most of the "Safari is holding back web developers" talk is bullshit, of course. It actually should read "Chrome releases APIs at neck breaking speed with zero concerns for the future of the web." See web API counts in major browsers: https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#72

Post by AnthonyMouse »

alwillis wrote: post #59
osrec wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually. Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed? Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not t…

> Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not the users of their browsers or operating systems.

We don't need this whataboutism to evaluate Apple. You're making the argument for PureOS or Debian, not iOS.

> If we are to believe Apple cares about its users, then it makes perfect sense why they don't allow slower, less power efficient, less secure and less private web engines available on iOS.

No it doesn't. They could make a better browser and, if it was actually better in every way, nobody would have any reason to use anything else. The fact that people would given the choice implies that something about choosing differently makes them better off enough to switch from the default.

> Apple is making it clear that if you want a platform where there are no safeguards, then this isn't the platform for you.

Safeguards mean warning someone adequately when they're about to do something suspect. Outright prohibiting the user from making an informed choice isn't a safeguard, it's a cage.

> People have been saying this for many years and now they're valued at over $1.5 trillion

Exxon was at one point the most valuable company on the exchange as well. What does that tell you about the ethics of how they got there, or what their future prospects look like?

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#73

Post by dmitriid »

davrous wrote: post #29
no_gravity wrote: post #8

The main problem I see in PWAs these days is that they cannot permanently store data on the device. As soon as the user deletes their "browser data", all the data of the PWAs on the device is lost too. If PWAs would get their own permanent storage like other apps, it would be a huge step forward.

They can thanks to the Native File System API coming with Project Fugu: https://web.dev/native-file-system/ . Available via origin trial for now but it should be soon released more broadly.

Have any other browser vendors expressed any interest in this?

I see from the link that Chrome is already doing an "origin trial" even if the spec itself isn't complete. So, why would it be "released more broadly". Or is it the Constructible Stylesheets again? When both Safari and Mozilla said "no", but Chrome released them anyway?

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#74

Post by satvikpendem »

With PWAs, you have to write apps in HTML, CSS, and JS, which seems worse than natively compiled languages like Swift, Kotlin, Flutter, etc. This, I feel, is a fundamental problem.

Perhaps the solution instead is that we need a way to distribute natively compilable apps via other means, maybe through a website but also through other app stores not subject to the Google / Apple duopoly; so basically PWA level access and downloadability, but not made with web technologies.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#75

Post by badsectoracula »

butz wrote: post #18
yeahgoodok wrote: post #16

What's the sense in publishing your PWA in the Play Store? Chrome already prompts the user if they'd like to install a PWA shortcut when you visit the site. I ask because it costs $25 and while I have a lot of time on my hands I'm a cheap ass.

Discoverability. Users browsing Play Store might see your app in related apps list or in search results. And you will get a way to gather user feedback without hosting and moderating forum or discussion board. Also, we are still at the point when you tell user to download an app, one usually goes to Play/App Store, not searches the web.

> Discoverability. Users browsing Play Store might see your app in related apps list or in search results.

Since when anything in Play Store (or Apple's App Store, for that matter) was discoverable? I can't find anything even remotely relevant to anything i want using these stores, i always have to use 3rd party sites (or just google something like " for android", sometimes even adding a site:reddit.com at the side if there are too many results, just to see what others are suggesting) and then if there isn't a Play Store link, i have to write the app's name exactly in the store's search, otherwise it will never appear on the results.

Discoverability has been a joke on these stores ever since they got more than about 1000 apps - and they still are designed as if they only have about 1000 apps.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#76

Post by MagnumPIG »

satvikpendem wrote: post #74

With PWAs, you have to write apps in HTML, CSS, and JS, which seems worse than natively compiled languages like Swift, Kotlin, Flutter, etc. This, I feel, is a fundamental problem. Perhaps the solution instead is that we need a way to distribute natively compilable apps via other means, maybe through a website but also through other app stores not subject to the Google / Apple duopoly; so basically PWA level access a…

But sadly this is not something Google and Microsoft would collaborate on. I would rather expect them to ready the lawyers.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#77

Post by DoctorOW »

vntok wrote: post #17
techntoke wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is like a team at Microsoft using Gmail as their email provider.

What is the name of that blogging software Microsoft is providing in competition with Medium?

I don't think there's a public blogging software unless you count Sharepoint but I doubt that would scale well. Still Microsoft has a number of web products that could be used instead of Medium. A lot of the smaller Microsoft weblogs use Azure websites with Wordpress and the bigger ones are part of Micrsoft's in-house multisite.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#80

Post by chabad360 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #74

With PWAs, you have to write apps in HTML, CSS, and JS, which seems worse than natively compiled languages like Swift, Kotlin, Flutter, etc. This, I feel, is a fundamental problem. Perhaps the solution instead is that we need a way to distribute natively compilable apps via other means, maybe through a website but also through other app stores not subject to the Google / Apple duopoly; so basically PWA level access a…

PWAs can't use WebAssembly?
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