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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#391

Post by perl4ever »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #209
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

> There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up Yeah, people who don't understand how hardware works.

Why The FBI Director Puts Tape Over His Webcam

"Because I saw somebody smarter than I am had a piece of tape over their camera"

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473548674...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#393

Post by a_t48 »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #375
sscarduzio wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically for Americans' wariness China, the "pop-up webcam" in Huawei laptops completely resolves the security and trust issue, by providing a physical way to disable the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKY3hvYKPpA Too bad it mainly shows your nostrils :(

The attack most people are worried about is your camera being activated while your laptop is open. Huawei's approach seems worse since you can't just apply a cover to it.

What? It's a physical button, you have to press it to open. I don't think there's a software control for it, is there?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#394

Post by Godel_unicode »

rovr138 wrote: post #272
aahhahahaaa wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the case for quite some time (10 years or so). I've torn apart two Macbooks to specifically test this and the LED is enabled when the camera receives power. It's impossible to disable with software. You can modify the Macbook of course, which is why the paranoid type will still use tape. Some attacks I've seen will take a photo with the camera as fast as possible so you might not notice, but the light w…

I think newer ones even route it through the T1 chip. Need to look again. There was an exploit, over 10 years ago like you said, that allow to disable it. But that was corrected. Edit - iıSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED - This was 2008 - https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2... Looking for t1 links. Edit 2 Can't find anything confirming the t1 right now..

The T chip in modern MacBooks is the T2, and it's certainly used for the mic cutoff. I'm unaware of public disclosures around it's use for the camera.

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/hardware-microphone...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#395

Post by fearingreprisal »

aahhahahaaa wrote: post #255
the-pigeon wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can't you specifically wire the indicator light to always be lit if the camera has power? I don't see Apple claiming they've done that but a correct design would make the indicator light work that way and be related to software at all. Meaning you could only disable the indicator light by physically modifying the device.

This has been the case for quite some time (10 years or so). I've torn apart two Macbooks to specifically test this and the LED is enabled when the camera receives power. It's impossible to disable with software. You can modify the Macbook of course, which is why the paranoid type will still use tape. Some attacks I've seen will take a photo with the camera as fast as possible so you might not notice, but the light w…

> It's impossible to disable with software.

> iSeeYou ( 2008 )

Which is it?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#396

Post by rkagerer »

the-pigeon wrote: post #196
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

But can't you specifically wire the indicator light to always be lit if the camera has power? I don't see Apple claiming they've done that but a correct design would make the indicator light work that way and be related to software at all. Meaning you could only disable the indicator light by physically modifying the device.

Better but not bulletproof; LED's can fail. Manufacturers might consider leaving a shallow recess around the camera to accommodate the paranoid among us.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#398

Post by dzhiurgis »

runarberg wrote: post #288
DanBC wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are camera covers not just part of the design? I guess Apple are going to say that they'd rather focus on the security of the OS and computer to prevent unauthorised software from being able to access the camera than on a mostly cosmetic doodad.

Above in the thread it has been noted that camera covers are not only about security. But also about preventing accidental exposure, e.g. when you accidentally click the wrong button in a meeting app, or if your app is misconfigured to start with the camera on, forget to close an app, etc. Camera covers helps prevent you from these potential embarrassments.

I’d be more embarrassed being seen wearing a camera cover

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#399

Post by JadeNB »

CydeWeys wrote: post #299
JadeNB wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you handle the microphone? I don't know any hardware way to make sure my microphone's not hearing me if I can't trust the software.

A physical electrical on/off switch for the microphone (that actually interrupts the wires going to the mic).

Doesn't that require the same kind of trust in the correctness of the wiring that is at issue in some other comments? I can see that a camera cover works, but I think I couldn't see that a physical switch was actually interrupting the wiring without doing a teardown.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#400

Post by captn3m0 »

abstrakraft wrote: post #389
valuearb wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On new Macs the light is a minimum 3 seconds even for a single frame photo. Anyone monitoring you has to turn the light in just to see if you are there, and what you are doing, and will likely have to watch for hours to catch any incriminating footage. You will have plenty of notice.

And what sort of hardware switch is it that guarantees the 3 second minimum?

A capacitor?
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