Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 990 posts

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#281

Post by pishpash »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54
miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

Doesn't inspire any confidence that the indicator is subject to bugs. It can happen again.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#283

Post by low_key »

"might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness"

Oh, if I could only get automatic brightness to actually turn off!!!! I keep the sensor covered with electrical tape because that's the closest I've been able to get.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#284

Post by aczerepinski »

If they sold a model without a camera for the same price, I would have bought that. The camera on MacBooks is terrible anyway, and you can buy a USB camera that's significantly better for less than $100.

Since that isn't an option, I keep a square torn from a post-it note over the camera.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#285

Post by jachee »

dingoegret wrote: post #273
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

>applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 Point being that the indicator light can be hacked and isn't too be blindly trusted.

No longer. The power lead for the camera requires electricity to pass through (and, thus illuminate) the indicator LED.

Can't hack that without extensive physical access to the machine.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#286

Post by JadeNB »

cgriswald wrote: post #257
maerF0x0 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even then there probably should be some minimum "flash" time in that if it turns on and off faster than the LED lights up or human eyes can see then it may still take images faster than we can register? EDIT: a commenter below said "Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack."

Frankly, by the time the indicator is noticed, it may be too late. Even with the LED wired in place and a 'feature' (capacitor or software?) forcing it to stay lit for 3 seconds, the damage may be done. It does, at least, let you know an attack occurred. I really think an LED is barking up the wrong tree. A built-in hardware cover would have the same effect as the LED, and no one would have to trust it, since the cam…

How would you handle the microphone? I don't know any hardware way to make sure my microphone's not hearing me if I can't trust the software.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#287

Post by valuearb »

livre wrote: post #111
miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

> Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... The main problem with that isn't that it is possible to disable the LED. The problem is that the LED is like a smoke detector, when it alerts you it's already too late, you are on fire (or your photo/video has already been taken). An indicator LED doesn't protect your privacy, it only tells you w…

On new Macs the light is a minimum 3 seconds even for a single frame photo. Anyone monitoring you has to turn the light in just to see if you are there, and what you are doing, and will likely have to watch for hours to catch any incriminating footage.

You will have plenty of notice.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#288

Post by runarberg »

DanBC wrote: post #181
soulofmischief wrote: post #160

If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.

> Why are camera covers not just part of the design? I guess Apple are going to say that they'd rather focus on the security of the OS and computer to prevent unauthorised software from being able to access the camera than on a mostly cosmetic doodad.

Above in the thread it has been noted that camera covers are not only about security. But also about preventing accidental exposure, e.g. when you accidentally click the wrong button in a meeting app, or if your app is misconfigured to start with the camera on, forget to close an app, etc. Camera covers helps prevent you from these potential embarrassments.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#289

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

cgriswald wrote: post #257
maerF0x0 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even then there probably should be some minimum "flash" time in that if it turns on and off faster than the LED lights up or human eyes can see then it may still take images faster than we can register? EDIT: a commenter below said "Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack."

Frankly, by the time the indicator is noticed, it may be too late. Even with the LED wired in place and a 'feature' (capacitor or software?) forcing it to stay lit for 3 seconds, the damage may be done. It does, at least, let you know an attack occurred. I really think an LED is barking up the wrong tree. A built-in hardware cover would have the same effect as the LED, and no one would have to trust it, since the cam…

Magnetic sliding cover: https://www.amazon.com/SpiShutter-Slim-RoseGold-Magnetic/dp/...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#290

Post by dylan604 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #204
the-pigeon wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can't you specifically wire the indicator light to always be lit if the camera has power? I don't see Apple claiming they've done that but a correct design would make the indicator light work that way and be related to software at all. Meaning you could only disable the indicator light by physically modifying the device.

even then there probably should be some minimum "flash" time in that if it turns on and off faster than the LED lights up or human eyes can see then it may still take images faster than we can register? EDIT: a commenter below said "Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack."

my laptop has a piece of tape over it, but i can still see the LED lit when it comes on. however, as far as the flash of a quick snap, does the camera on the MacBook take an image faster than the iDevices? the phones always take at least a second after pushing the button, so maybe Apple would be better off putting the same kind of camera in the laptop to ensure it is impossible to take a photo quickly
Post reply on HN