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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#262

Post by rahkiin »

runxel wrote: post #195

Just as a social observation I noticed a pattern which always struck me pretty hard: Nearly all (say 9 out of 10, and not, it's not an exaggeration) of my friends – me included FWIW – have some kind of cover over their webcams. This is true even for people who you would describe as the opposite of tech-savvy. Sometimes these folks even have no ad blocker installed and use Chrome happily. But still: Everybody has some…

And no microphone cover, and no cover for either on their phones

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#263

Post by vortex_ape »

soulofmischief wrote: post #160

If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.

> Why are camera covers not just part of the design?

I feel more and more companies should do this! My ThinkPad T480 has one built-in and I really like the peace of mind.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#265

Post by rahkiin »

godelski wrote: post #62
kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood physical covers, then again I am never in a compromising position in front of my laptop. Any malware that can take pictures can record keystrokes. I want no cover so I can see the activity light because knowing the webcam is on is more important than it being on. The (pennsylvania?) school district webcam spying scandal got kicked off because a boy noticed his webcam light coming on. If it had b…

I don't understand why people have window curtains and close them at night. If you have them closed then you can't see the person spying on you outside. Door locks are more important. This is what you sound like. The things can be used in conjunction with one another. It is not an or scenario, you can have both. You can also have covers which don't cover the indicator. You use different deterrent mechanisms for diffe…

In the Netherlands we don’t really close curtains at night. I also have no camera cover.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#266

Post by ggus »

axoltl wrote: post #169
causality0 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether this is a firmware implementation that's just waiting for a 0-day or if the +V for the CMOS sensor is literally wired to the LED. If the latter I'd like to see a picture of it.

Hi! I was the security architect for this feature on recent Macs. The LED is wired to the camera PMIC and is powered by the voltage rail that powers the camera. The PMIC will always remain on if the system has power. Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack.

> to prevent the single-frame-grab attack.

prevent? by the time the LED turns on, the attack has already happened.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#267

Post by m12m3kg »

alunchbox wrote: post #185
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

Zukerberg did that to troll all the privacy paranoics

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#268

Post by uniqueid »

stouset wrote: post #145
gist wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that people don't trust these lights because they have a bad track record. No tech people who think about and obsess about this type of 'risk' don't trust the lights. Most Apple customers vast majority don't think and don't care.

I would wager money that precisely zero of the "tech people who think about and obsess about this type of 'risk'" have had their privacy compromised as a result of an Apple laptop misrepresenting the on/off state of the camera. It's been twelve years since a vulnerability in this was reported, and by all reports the LED power state is now implemented in hardware. It's long since time to obsess over other sources of r…

An opaque piece of tape used to disable a camera is one of few components a user can completely understand. Apple is probably correct to tell users to rely on Apple's security features, but those features are way more complicated than a piece of tape.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#269

Post by shhsshs »

XCSme wrote: post #194
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #15

> The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. Has anyone torn down the hardware and verified this lately? It should not be a complicated feature at all. Just ensure you have the same voltage applied to your LED circuit as your camera circuit, and enforce that by having them on the same wire...

Also, pretty unlikely, but what if the LED dies? :)

I’m not an electrical engineer so forgive me if this is a dumb question. Is it possible to wire it in such a way where the power actually travels through the LED, so if the LED ever stopped functioning or lost connection the webcam would literally receive no power?
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