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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#181

Post by DanBC »

soulofmischief wrote: post #160

If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.

> Why are camera covers not just part of the design?

I guess Apple are going to say that they'd rather focus on the security of the OS and computer to prevent unauthorised software from being able to access the camera than on a mostly cosmetic doodad.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#182

Post by sky_rw »

abrowne wrote: post #163

I always wonder why the people who cover webcams don't think about the mic. Isn't that almost worse? It could grab speech even if you aren't right in front of the camera.

The much more real-world use case for me is guaranteeing I won't join a video conference call with my camera on. In light of all the WFH zoom accidental nudity videos going around, its no surprise camera covers have become more prevalent.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#183

Post by reaperducer »

Looking at the comments here, I guess I'm the only one who finds sadness that Apple even has to publish this document.

Some of those novelty and promotional camera covers are really quite thick. And it just seems like common sense to me that you wouldn't close a laptop with one of those things on. Just like I wouldn't close my laptop with a pen or a ham sandwich tucked into it.

But I guess Apple has had enough complaints that they had to issue something. I can only hope that the department that writes these things was shaking its head the whole time.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#185

Post by alunchbox »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54
miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#186

Post by TeMPOraL »

scarface74 wrote: post #179
outoftheabyss wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say you are equally likely to catch someone jacking off through the webcam as to catch valuable information through the microphone. They are therefore equally lucrative

How could it be equally lucrative? The amount of information someone can gather from a camera is much smaller than what you could gather from a microphone in a given room. If I am in a conference room talking about strategy, an uncovered camera will just pick me up. The microphone will capture everyone’s conversation.

Blackmail potential. It's not the company meetings that criminals want to hack laptop cameras for.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#187

Post by dividedbyzero »

sixothree wrote: post #167
soulofmischief wrote: post #160

If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.

I am convinced they were ordered at some point to include cameras. They definitely drive up the cost of laptops, especially earlier on when webcams were more expensive. There were so few practical uses in the early days and so few people actually use them today that I am surprised few laptop manufacturers don't allow for security.

Few people use them? I really doubt that, especially with so many people working from home these days.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#188

Post by Closi »

aboutBen wrote: post #151
apecat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent Apple laptops have a separate SoC dedicated to secure boot as well as making sure macOS has no direct control over that camera indicator light, and more https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/29/what-apples-t2-ch... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Silicon#T_series

If the T2 chip is compromised, then separate SoC protection is moot. The only true protection is a physical covering (like in the Lenovo) or physical kill switch (like the Purism laptops).

At that stage though all bets are off - the hackers have access to everything you have typed, all your files, all the audio from your microphones, your credit card details, those photos of you and your partner on the hard drive...

Yet the camera on a laptop is the thing that we need to cover? It’s a weird security model, that’s all.

Besides, on a MacBook it sounds like the webcam light is almost impossible to circumvent because of the implementation.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#190

Post by 1-more »

causality0 wrote: post #144
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you just moved the goal-posts from a discussion about whether the implementation was faulty (and Apple was misleading their product owners) to one about whether the design compromises are right. Apple claims that the LED comes on when the camera is active, which it claims helps protect your privacy. That seems to be true, and certainly no-one seems to have any contradictory examples that are not 12+ years old. I…

The question is whether this is a firmware implementation that's just waiting for a 0-day or if the +V for the CMOS sensor is literally wired to the LED. If the latter I'd like to see a picture of it.

According to an anonymous Gruber source, Apple fixed the issue by tying the led to the Vsync on the camera board. I have not found a teardown or anything other than this confirming it https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams
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