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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

support.apple.com

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#121

Post by grogenaut »

GuiA wrote: post #89
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is in the design: by not providing a hardware switch, all we have is trust. As we can see from the past, unfortunatly it's not enough.

I had a laptop with a physical switch for WiFi/Bluetooth in 2006 or so (with a matching orange/blue light that would turn up when you toggled it). The problem was that this was actually all done by a software driver - when I booted into Linux with the laptop I was surprised to find that the bluetooth/wifi modules were on regardless of the switch's position. At the end of the day, unless you have a really nice microsc…

At this time we specifically bought computers with modules for radios that we could pull. Toshiba was happy to supply this to us.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#122

Post by duskwuff »

planar_vector wrote: post #98

Can someone help me understand the extent of possible damage by having a webcam cover? This might at least inform me if its worth the risk. When Apple says "you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances" , do they mean? - the display itself could have scratches? - the display connector at the hinge has a chance of weakening? - others?

The webcam is behind the same pane of glass as the display. It's similar construction to a typical modern cell phone.

When the laptop is closed, the webcam lands around the bottom of the trackpad. There's a small gap between the screen and the lower lid, and the trackpad is recessed slightly, but not by much, and it doesn't have any "give". A bulky webcam cover will strike the trackpad and may shatter the glass of the display and/or the trackpad, especially if the laptop is closed quickly.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#124

Post by runarberg »

gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

I quite often accidentally turn on the camera without intending (usually because an app automatically turns it on) to. Having a cover prevents me from being embarrassed by an unexpected exposure.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#125

Post by hyko »

Here’s the document explaining how it’s physically impossible to use the microphone when the MacBook lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...

Where is the equivalent document explaining how it’s physically impossible for the camera to be active without the green LED lighting up?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#127

Post by kelnos »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

The problem is in the design: by not providing a hardware switch, all we have is trust. As we can see from the past, unfortunatly it's not enough.

I don't see how that fixes the problem; if you don't trust Apple to build in hardware safeguards around the camera indicator light, why would you trust them with a hardware switch?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#128

Post by duxup »

dathinab wrote: post #115
duxup wrote: post #11

This seems like a pretty mild warning for folks who might stick a bulky cover on their camera and press down / pack their laptop tightly and now have wedged part of the screen open with the cover. I'm a fan of using painters tape.... pretty low profile, easily removed, stays on really well. Also the weird blue glow you get when the camera is on tells you pretty quick "Hey there's a cover on there" where sometimes wit…

But it's also a sign about Apple not doing a good wrt. making their premium products robust. With many other Laptops in that price range you would either have to use a very fat cover or apply a amount of pressure which might damage your laptop anyway. I just tried it (carefully) with my laptop and the screen has enough "play"/"flex" to handle it just fine. PS: Fun fact as far as I remember a number of webcams with LE…

I'm not sure if this is more or less of an issue with Apple covers than say ... anyone else.

It could be, but I wouldn't base it off just Apple having a warning about it.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#129

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #15

> The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. Has anyone torn down the hardware and verified this lately? It should not be a complicated feature at all. Just ensure you have the same voltage applied to your LED circuit as your camera circuit, and enforce that by having them on the same wire...

Even if true, do I have time to verify for all devices? A piece of tape is a piece of tape.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#130

Post by runarberg »

markstos wrote: post #70
noja wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait: that's not the same as having a camera cover. A camera cover guarantees that the camera can only work when the camera is uncovered. A camera light alerts you once the camera is already on .

Important distinction. If your microphone is compromised, your web cam might be triggered to turn on just long enough to take a photo, or the camera could turn on only when the mic is quiet and there are indications the person is not engaged with the computer.

Note that this is not only about security. Sometimes a user simply makes a mistake, or have an app configured the wrong way, and accidentally turn on their cameras without intending to. Nothing has been compromised, everything is secure, but they still suffered an unexpected exposure. A camera cover will prevent many of these situations.
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