Live data from Hacker News

LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

lwn.net

321–330 of 433 posts

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#321
Personally I find LibreOffice Writer to be fine for my regular reports until something goes wrong and then it's like old versions of Word.

For example, occasionally when I'm making a numbered list the tenth item and beyond will be bounced over a full tabstop which looks horrible. Then I'm trying to work around the problem by messing with the tab stops which causes problems for the rest of the document.

It's really hard to fix when something goes wrong as a casual user. Inserting images/figures is fraught with peril too. I sometimes find myself hacking the doc until it looks presentable and then not touching it. It's like those old "smart" systems that weren't quite smart enough to get it right, but would fight you tooth and nail when you tried to undo what they did.

For what its worth I prefer the consistency of its interface over the ever changing ribbon of Word. Word also tries to guess what you want and when it guesses wrong it's really annoying.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#322
We kind of need a version of CC-BY-NC. Preferably with a governance model that then distributes money from commercial licenses to contributors... Or government funded Open source. There is no reason for society to try to do something as intrinsically cooperative as building software through market mechanisms.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#323

I have a few questions that don't seem to be fully answered in the post. > This “Personal Edition” tag ... has the purpose of differentiating the current, free and community-supported LibreOffice from a LibreOffice Enterprise set of products and services provided by the members of our ecosystem. Will this "LibreOffice Enterprise" be Free as in Freedom? Would I be able to package it up myself and call it "Community EN…

This isn't really changing anything. LibreOffice is under the GPL. It's just a marketing attempt to get large organizations to realize that they should contribute back to the ecosystem if they rely on LibreOffice.

LibreOffice is currently under the LGPLv3 and the MPLv2, not the GPL.

Further, the document refers to 'new products' that could be under the 'LibreOffice Enterprise' umbrella. Could any of these be proprietary? Do we have any assurances?

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#324
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “ I also question the basic premise that the tabbed interface is somehow more intuitive for new users. Like many UI related assertions, absolutely no concrete evidence is being provided to support this point. ” Uh, yeah there was? Go dig through the wayback machine for Jensen Harris’s blogpost series about the design of the ribbon, or watch his MIX08 talk on it; he was the design team lead for the change, and the r…

There's never any shortage of cranky commenters on HN with eloquently written 4 paragraph posts about how some complicated interface from 1993 is the pinnacle of computing productivity, demanding peer reviewed studies to the contrary.

I mean, you could argue that some complicated interfaces like VIM's modal editing are the pinnacle of productivity for power users.

But power users and ordinary user's needs are world's apart, and the office suites have to cater to both of them. Thus the deep divide.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#325
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's either there or it's not--there are no other "rocks" to look under Nit pick on this quote: every time I've used the ribbon, I need features that have been collapsed into a "more" list (hamburger menu?) for that section of the ribbon. Also: > you need to look through 3 levels of hierarchical menus, open up 31 toolbars and peruse about 20 Task Panes. I'm really dubious that the ribbon is better in this regard. T…

I really love good UI design and I'm convinced I don't have what it takes but I do keep seeing arguments and interfaces that seem quite weird to me. I would do it like this: The desire to keep the document (or whatever it is) worked at on the screen during the "hunt" I consider a mistake. When mixing paint on a pallet the eyes are focused on what you are doing. You might want to look up to the canvas and back down ag…

I’m an artist who works mostly digitally. When I am mixing colors I have the color dialog right there on the screen next to the art, with my changes being reflected live. How does this color work with the rest of the work? That’s what’s important.

The only reason traditional artists use a palette far away from their art for their paint is because that works in the physical world. Mixing my colors right next to my virtual canvas is a huge speed-up compared to painting a ton of thumbnails with different colors.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine taking enough of that money to support these 40 LibreOffice developers and maybe say 20 more. There are infinite ways to spend every dollar, why is LibreOffice funding worthy? In other words, why is LibreOffice's popularity so low that it cannot find a way to fund its operations? Which then raises the question - why do you want to fund an unpopular project?

As schools move more and more online they are locking into proprietary office programs that suck funds from schools, and students can't afford. Sure, as long as they are students they can use the school's software for free, but once they graduate they can't. So in effect the government is already funding google docs and office 360. I would prefer the government fund opensource software that anyone who pays taxes can…

While not open source, you can definitely use Google docs for free student or not.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As schools move more and more online they are locking into proprietary office programs that suck funds from schools, and students can't afford. Sure, as long as they are students they can use the school's software for free, but once they graduate they can't. So in effect the government is already funding google docs and office 360. I would prefer the government fund opensource software that anyone who pays taxes can…

While not open source, you can definitely use Google docs for free student or not.

But it is a proprietary, private owned software. That can change anytime. Maybe not in the next 10 years, but it can and I suspect that it will.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#328
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If MS made a Linux version I'd probably get that. What about the web based Office 365? It should run fine on Linux, and clearly paid closed-source software isn't an issue for you if you would be willing to pay for traditional Microsoft Office. > However in the biz world you end up sharing docs and sheets with MS office users and that is where things start to go sideways. Office 365 should work swimmingly for this u…

Personally £7.99 a month for a piece of software I use 1 hour every 6 months is definitely not worth it. Though I'd pay £100 for it no questions asked. Subscription plans are stupid.

> Though I'd pay £100 for it no questions asked.

Office 365 is a continually updated and enhanced product. They won't provide those updates and enhancements to you forever because your £100 won't pay for them.

What you are asking for is their old downloaded/shrink-wrapped Classic Office product offering, which you can still get by paying a f themixed sum ($145 I think).

But even in the old days, your £100 bought you a single program with very few updates if any. If you wanted new features or even security updates (when this became a thing), you needed to purchase a new license, for another £100.

What if you don't want the new features or security updates? Well, perhaps it sucks, but the world of software is a far more complicated than it used to be and both the feature competition and security threats are steep, so no software vendor can afford to sit on and continually support an old version. Unchanging software isn't a product that becomes an antique like a 1959 Chevy. Rather it loses value over time as the world changes around it and it becomes less relevant.

Eventually, they will stop updating your purchased software, and if you want to have new features and security protections, you will need to pay again. In the long run, that cost will converge with that of a subscription.

This is why some people like open source software like Libreoffice as an alternative model, but as the OP highlights, it still needs an economic model to incentivize the enhancement of the software, and it would appear that the primary motivation of many users of the product is to not pay for an office software suite, not the higher ideal of a shared community software development model.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#329
post #284
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really worthy of funding anymore. Certainly not by the government. It's just not competitive with other options. I used to be a longtime Libre Office user. Back then, MS Office was expensive and only available on Windows. Even the Mac version wasn't completely compatible. MS Office is better than it's ever been, with a variety of licensing options that are affordable. And if you're a student you can get it f…

As a counterpoint, I imagine the amount of money the US government already spends on MS Office could fund development of something as good or better than Office, while giving it away free to the rest of society improving productivity. Although, I wouldn't bet on the management of that project playing out like that.

This is exactly what Sun thought. They looked at their licensing bill for using MS Office and thought they could develop an Office suite for less than that themselves. They bought this little German company which made "Star Office" and started developing it for their own use and also selling it. Turns out, it didn't work. So they Open Sourced it, called it OO.org... it still didn't work. 20 years, many rebrands and many changes of ownership later, that same piece is software is still struggling to find a way to exist. Turns out, developing a competitor to MS Office is not that easy or cheap.

Re: LibreOffice: The Next Five Years

#330
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally £7.99 a month for a piece of software I use 1 hour every 6 months is definitely not worth it. Though I'd pay £100 for it no questions asked. Subscription plans are stupid.

> Though I'd pay £100 for it no questions asked. Office 365 is a continually updated and enhanced product. They won't provide those updates and enhancements to you forever because your £100 won't pay for them. What you are asking for is their old downloaded/shrink-wrapped Classic Office product offering, which you can still get by paying a f themixed sum ($145 I think). But even in the old days, your £100 bought you…

I get what you mean, but people still made a living selling software without monthly subscriptions before. If I had to use Office more, I'd pay the monthly price, but not for 2 hours a year. It being continuously developed still doesn't justify the price.

I can afford it, but if I had to pay £7.99 x 6 = £47.94 for every hour of productivity I extract from a piece of software, I'd go bankrupt very quickly. That's why I called subscription plans stupid: it's unreasonably expensive for the amateur (like me) slice of the market.

And being such a small time user, I don't care about the super new features of Office $CURRENT_YEAR. If I could buy Office for Linux 2020 for 100 pounds, I would, and it would be enough for me for the next decade, unless I'll move out of software engineering and go work as a lawyer or something.

Post reply on HN