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Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

chicagoreporter.com

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Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#261

Post by zach_garwood »

twsttest wrote: post #231
yummypaint wrote: post #224

The chicago PD and it's notorious lawlessness is the single biggest thing preventing me from moving to the area despite a good professional fit and available jobs. I must not be the only one. If I ran a company I wouldn't be willing to subject my employees to those hazards either. Maybe it's worth complaining to the chamber of commerce... public officials seem to have done little to fix anything, maybe involving the…

You think the Chicago PD is lawless? It's the criminals, crime and general lawlessness in Chicago that is causing over 40 people to routinely be shot each weekend in Chicago. The rampant lies and misrepresentations about police will only cause more crime, deaths and lawlessness as police choose to retire and decent people who may have been considering becoming police will decide to not subject themselves to the const…

Hi, Chicago resident here. The CPD is under a consent decree that they do not follow, their officers have rioted against protesters and stood by watching looting occur, and every year they incur tens (if not hundreds) of millions of dollars of debt for the city and it's taxpayers for police misconduct settlements. So yeah, I think it's fair to say CPD is lawless.

As for your assertion that "rampant lies and misrepresentations" caused the decline of the police profession, the idiom isn't "criticism of the apple barrel spoils the whole bunch." The police do damage to their own reputation by not removing the "bad apples," moreso than anybody who critices the police.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#262

Post by dlp211 »

mythrwy wrote: post #226
dlp211 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think it is easy to become a teacher, boy do I have news for you.

It can't be too difficult based on many of those I had.

The difficulty to become a teacher is in no way correlated with the ability to teach.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#263

Post by fredophile »

baddox wrote: post #249
fredophile wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My original comment was about the Canadian military and was an example of how groups like the police don't necessarily need unions so you're the one bringing the US military into this. I can't speak for the US military but the Canadian military is active domestically doing search and rescue, responding to natural disasters, counter terrorism, etc. People will die if those activities need to take place and the militar…

The US military has an active conscription program at their disposal.

Draftees won't be much help if the military is on strike. Let's take a quick look at how that would go.

A group of young adults gets drafted into the Army. They're told to show up at base Foo on some date for boot camp. They go to base Foo and cross the picket line to enter the base. All of the instructors are on strike so there is no one to teach them. They can't get uniforms and equipment because the quartermaster is also on strike. They head to the mess hall to get some food but the cooks are on strike. It's getting late and they want to sleep. The barracks for trainees is locked up and no one is around with the key because they're on strike.

Now you've got a group of tired, hungry people, who didn't want to be there in the first place, who have no training or equipment. How does this help?

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#264

Post by thephyber »

twsttest wrote: post #230
aahhahahaaa wrote: post #67

Incredibly telling that the police still pull this type of thing despite how laser-focused everyone is on their behavior right now. It's almost as if they've been institutionalized to think they're better than everyone else. Defund the police and use the money for mental health and human services. Local police service data should be randomly audited by the feds and independent third parties.

>"Defund the police and use the money for mental health and human services." That doesn't address the cancer of gang violence and other violence that police need to deal with constantly. "Mental health and human services" will not address these problems. Most people committing crime had an opportunity to go to school and participate in legal society. They choose not to. The future of America is that of a lawless gang…

Even police departments don't send their paramilitary groups (eg. "SWAT") to every scene, police don't need to be at every emergency call. In fact, this is already the case -- when you call 911 for a medical emergency, an ambulance or medical fire department unit shows up (usually alone). In the same way, "defund the police" means use police more judiciously, not necessarily eliminate police.

> The future of America is that of a lawless gangland like Mexico if the police are "defunded".

Citation needed.

Gang violence in the US has been declining for more than 2 decades, even as the population grows and US police case closure rates are far below 50%. Police don't have as much effectiveness or as good of a reputation with innocent civilians in gang territory as I imagine you think. Also, a significant portion of the US already has and carries guns, so it's not like gang violence would just expand boundless even if there were no police.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#265

Post by thephyber »

vinceguidry wrote: post #236

This strikes me as remarkably similar to the "crown jewels" problem of API availability. Simply stated, it's that it's the hardest sell in the world to expect a company to expend money and resources to act against its own interests, and applied to governmental organizations like the police, no appointed official is going to stomach spending money making themselves look bad. More broadly stated, you can't solve accoun…

> More broadly stated, you can't solve accountability problems by asking people to step up and be more accountable. The only way is to impose rules from above.

> But as soon as a journo ran an article using it to make them look bad, regardless of how right it was, means their access was going to get revoked.

No. This is specific (but not exclusive) to their culture.

If NASA has this toxic culture, we would lose more than 50% of all rocket payloads and astronauts. Programmers who have this mentality are defensive about their code (as if any criticism of their code is an attack on their ego) never grow and quickly turn the culture around them very negative.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#266

Post by vinceguidry »

thephyber wrote: post #265
vinceguidry wrote: post #236

This strikes me as remarkably similar to the "crown jewels" problem of API availability. Simply stated, it's that it's the hardest sell in the world to expect a company to expend money and resources to act against its own interests, and applied to governmental organizations like the police, no appointed official is going to stomach spending money making themselves look bad. More broadly stated, you can't solve accoun…

> More broadly stated, you can't solve accountability problems by asking people to step up and be more accountable. The only way is to impose rules from above. > But as soon as a journo ran an article using it to make them look bad, regardless of how right it was, means their access was going to get revoked. No. This is specific (but not exclusive) to their culture. If NASA has this toxic culture, we would lose more…

If we had a million NASAs all over the country, they wouldn't all be paragons of professionalism.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#267

Post by aahhahahaaa »

twsttest wrote: post #230
aahhahahaaa wrote: post #67

Incredibly telling that the police still pull this type of thing despite how laser-focused everyone is on their behavior right now. It's almost as if they've been institutionalized to think they're better than everyone else. Defund the police and use the money for mental health and human services. Local police service data should be randomly audited by the feds and independent third parties.

>"Defund the police and use the money for mental health and human services." That doesn't address the cancer of gang violence and other violence that police need to deal with constantly. "Mental health and human services" will not address these problems. Most people committing crime had an opportunity to go to school and participate in legal society. They choose not to. The future of America is that of a lawless gang…

The police don't address gang violence, they react to it after it happens. Gang violence has been declining in the US despite no change in policing.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#269

Post by mythrwy »

dlp211 wrote: post #262
mythrwy wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be too difficult based on many of those I had.

The difficulty to become a teacher is in no way correlated with the ability to teach.

What I was referring to was intelligence, not ability to teach.

And, factually, yes, it is pretty easy to become a teacher. Thanks for your opinion to the contrary though, I'll consider it.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#270

Post by santoshalper »

khawkins wrote: post #80
santoshalper wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not op, and I don't get the sense that you are asking the question in good faith based on the snark, but will give you my thought: Our need for accountability and oversight over jobs that involve the ability to use deadly force outweighs their need for collective bargaining power. The greater good, at least presently, is served by being able to scrutinize police conduct with less interference. I don't think poli…

Given that police officers (a) are first-responders whose central job is public safety, (b) are regularly sent into situations where their life and safety is on the line (6 have been shot to death in the past two months), and (c) regularly face violent and hateful prejudice as an identity, just for putting on the uniform, it's hard to justify that they don't deserve advocacy from a group of people with shared experie…

(a) This is a fantastic argument for why they should not be able to collectively bargain and strike. They are civil servants, not labor working for capital owners.

(b) You grossly overstate the danger of being a police officer. According to the Department of Labor, being a police officer is not in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US. It is, in fact, slightly more dangerous than being an electrician, and significantly safer than driving a cab. (https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfar0020.pdf)

(c) I think you are being hyperbolic. The intense criticism they are facing today is earned. Not because all, or even most officers are bad, but because they consistently protect the ones that are, and aggressively defend the worst among them.

They can have advocacy, but their ability to collectively bargain with us (our government is us) and constantly circle the wagons and protect their own is net harmful to our society.

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