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Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#491

Post by hedora »

foxylad wrote: post #358
danudey wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an IT perspective: I can set up an internal APT mirror for my users, servers, test systems, etc., but I can't set up an internal snap mirror as far as I can tell. This means that despite having an internal repo that I can whitelist, some package installations will now arbitrarily require internet access. I can no longer install chromium on a system without access to the internet, and package installation will fa…

There is a big user issue on top of the philosophical and maintenance issues - snaps are SLOOOOOOW. I've only experienced them with two applications, and both took forever to startup compared to the apt-get installed versions I quickly replaced them with. OK, "forever" is hyperbole - it was probably about 5 seconds. But it was enough of an annoyance for me to figure out how to install a deb packaged version. And ever…

I’ve had good luck with Devuan (Debian - systemd), though they tend to run a bit behind Debian Stable.

For me, the stability of it working (well) as it has for the last few decades is worth missing a few of the latest updates.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#492

Post by boring_twenties »

Avamander wrote: post #448
djeiasbsbo wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ~/snap is pretty terrible but I am almost as annoyed with something like ~/.tmux.conf and no support for the XDG Base Dirs Spec or setting the config path. With tmux it seems like this is finally possible with version 3.1 or by compiling it yourself but I remember being annoyed about this years ago. I dislike a home directory cluttered with dotfiles just as much as that snap folder choice because when do we actu…

There are way more offenders here. But snap is the most egregious one because it's not hidden. Name and shame: * docker (~/.docker) * Arduino IDE (~/.arduino15) * GNURadio (~/.gnuradio) * IPython (~/.ipython) * FreeCAD (~/.FreeCAD) * HPlip (~/.hplip) * IntelliJ and others (e.g. ~/RubyMine[year]) * Cargo (~/.cargo) * Audacity (~/.audacity-data) * PGAdmin (~/.pgadmin) * ELinks (~/.elinks) * NPM (~/.npm) * sqlmap (~/.sq…

Another stupid thing is stuff like ~/.config//Cache.

The cache is not a config, assholes. What do you think ~/.cache is for?!

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#494

Post by imtringued »

franga2000 wrote: post #425
nix23 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im here to push you away from secondhand distros use: ArchLinux NOT Manjaro Debian NOT Ubuntu etc And so on, the 'originals' work always better in the long run.

> the 'originals' work always better in the long run Except that normal people can actually install Manjaro and it doesn't make you use AUR for pretty basic things. Except that Ubuntu actually doesn't shit itself almost every time you add a 3rd party package/repo and comes with reasonable defaults. Also, have you used Pop OS? Your statement is quite simply untrue.

I've had a friend struggle with half a dozen Linux distributions. Then I told him about Arch Linux. One day later he told me he had a fully functioning Linux desktop.

I was impressed because usually when I install Arch Linux I forget to boot the flash drive with UEFI enabled so I get stuck because I get errors during bootloader installation. I also love to do pointless things like install Arch Linux (not the iso) on a 32GB flash drive.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#495

Post by imtringued »

johnisgood wrote: post #323
pjfin123 wrote: post #84

If desktop Linux is ever going to be mainstream there needs to be an easy to use "app store" where users can use a GUI to install apps which need to be sandboxed like on a mobile phone with defined permissions. Snapcraft is way ahead of Flatpak on this and the current Ubuntu setup works well. On Ubuntu you can go to the Ubuntu software app (gui) search for software and it blends apt results with snap results. This re…

As a user, I could not hate Snap more, along with whoever thought it was a good idea to release their crapware "for Linux" through Snapcraft only. If "desktop Linux" is going to be anything like Ubuntu and whatever Canonical stands for, I most definitely do not want it. That said, I do not really know what "the year of the Linux desktop" is supposed to refer to as I have been a happy Linux desktop user for way over t…

This makes me wonder. If Linux will become mainstream then won't it lose its charm? I'm using Linux because of the package management. If something replaces that with a closed "app store" it might attract proprietary companies and those companies will attract regular users then I may stop caring about Linux.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#496

Post by sergeykish »

Avamander wrote: post #448
djeiasbsbo wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ~/snap is pretty terrible but I am almost as annoyed with something like ~/.tmux.conf and no support for the XDG Base Dirs Spec or setting the config path. With tmux it seems like this is finally possible with version 3.1 or by compiling it yourself but I remember being annoyed about this years ago. I dislike a home directory cluttered with dotfiles just as much as that snap folder choice because when do we actu…

There are way more offenders here. But snap is the most egregious one because it's not hidden. Name and shame: * docker (~/.docker) * Arduino IDE (~/.arduino15) * GNURadio (~/.gnuradio) * IPython (~/.ipython) * FreeCAD (~/.FreeCAD) * HPlip (~/.hplip) * IntelliJ and others (e.g. ~/RubyMine[year]) * Cargo (~/.cargo) * Audacity (~/.audacity-data) * PGAdmin (~/.pgadmin) * ELinks (~/.elinks) * NPM (~/.npm) * sqlmap (~/.sq…

Quite a lot (npm, cargo, docker, ipython, elinks, gnupg, freecad, ...) already support XDG or may be configured with environment variables [0]:

    export ELINKS_CONFDIR="$XDG_CONFIG_HOME"/elinks
[0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_Base_Directory

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#497

Post by bayindirh »

amelius wrote: post #439
dcow wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending some encouragement your way: try Debian. I bet money you won't even notice it's not Ubuntu. Or you will, because your software will launch when you ask it to. I'm super happy with Debian lately. I know it used to be the old neck beard slow and steady distro, but honestly these days packages get updates rather timely and it doesn't feel like the Debian of 10 years ago. And you can always run Debian testing wit…

One problem I have with Debian (that is not Debian's fault) is that NVidia does not officially support it. It probably works just fine, but it's just another thing you might run into.

There are .deb packages in the non-free repo and it just works as long as the driver has no bugs regarding to card installed on the system.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#498

Post by bayindirh »

franga2000 wrote: post #425
nix23 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im here to push you away from secondhand distros use: ArchLinux NOT Manjaro Debian NOT Ubuntu etc And so on, the 'originals' work always better in the long run.

> the 'originals' work always better in the long run Except that normal people can actually install Manjaro and it doesn't make you use AUR for pretty basic things. Except that Ubuntu actually doesn't shit itself almost every time you add a 3rd party package/repo and comes with reasonable defaults. Also, have you used Pop OS? Your statement is quite simply untrue.

> Except that Ubuntu actually doesn't shit itself almost every time you add a 3rd party package/repo and comes with reasonable defaults.

I'm using debian testing for more than 15 years and it never shit itself for a 3rd party repo.

Debian comes with whathever the original software developers set as the default sans the wallpaper. For sensible default you can bug the software developer in question, not debian.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#499

Post by johnisgood »

imtringued wrote: post #495
johnisgood wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user, I could not hate Snap more, along with whoever thought it was a good idea to release their crapware "for Linux" through Snapcraft only. If "desktop Linux" is going to be anything like Ubuntu and whatever Canonical stands for, I most definitely do not want it. That said, I do not really know what "the year of the Linux desktop" is supposed to refer to as I have been a happy Linux desktop user for way over t…

This makes me wonder. If Linux will become mainstream then won't it lose its charm? I'm using Linux because of the package management. If something replaces that with a closed "app store" it might attract proprietary companies and those companies will attract regular users then I may stop caring about Linux.

I would like to think that there will be maintained Linux distributions out there that we currently have today that do not use or depend on such closed "app stores". I think we will not have to worry about this dystopian future just yet as there are like-minded people out there working on Linux distributions and do the packaging for them to keep the repositories up-to-date, and so forth. If something were to happen to Linux itself (quite possible given recent developments), then someone might just fork (I am not a lawyer, so I am not sure about the legalities). We will see. I certainly hope that it will retain its philosophy; "closed app stores" are definitely not it. :/

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#500

Post by Avamander »

sergeykish wrote: post #496
Avamander wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way more offenders here. But snap is the most egregious one because it's not hidden. Name and shame: * docker (~/.docker) * Arduino IDE (~/.arduino15) * GNURadio (~/.gnuradio) * IPython (~/.ipython) * FreeCAD (~/.FreeCAD) * HPlip (~/.hplip) * IntelliJ and others (e.g. ~/RubyMine[year]) * Cargo (~/.cargo) * Audacity (~/.audacity-data) * PGAdmin (~/.pgadmin) * ELinks (~/.elinks) * NPM (~/.npm) * sqlmap (~/.sq…

Quite a lot (npm, cargo, docker, ipython, elinks, gnupg, freecad, ...) already support XDG or may be configured with environment variables [0]: export ELINKS_CONFDIR="$XDG_CONFIG_HOME"/elinks [0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_Base_Directory

It should be the default that my home folder isn't cluttered. I have tens and tens of pieces of software, it's very impractical to keep track what does what and if I have to get them to behave somehow.

That export list required got me weary, plus look at how many in that list are hardcoded :/, the situation is rather bad.

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