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Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

theintercept.com

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Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#191

Post by mlang23 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #167
squeaky-clean wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The posts are public and the police cannot go after anyone for simply engaging in protected speech, "police SHOULD NOT go after anyone for simply engaging in protected speech". FTFY They can do lots of things they should not. They should not run cars into protesters. They should not push over old men who are not causing trouble. They should not shoot unarmed people in the back who are running away. They should not…

> They should not kill a black man ... over a false counterfeit bill complaint. They shouldn’t kill even for legitimate counterfeit bill complaints. Police should use the absolute minimum force required to both apprehend suspects (as limited by relevant law) and is required by public safety; not one ounce more. If someone is accused of committing a crime, it’s up to the courts and the jury to determine if they’re gui…

Good summary. Reminds me that I am very thankful to $deity that I am not an U.S. citizen.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#192

Post by gophicer »

pnako wrote: post #182
aspaceman wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The obvious utility seems to be monitoring different protest zones for signs that violence is beginning to break out. There's an easier way of knowing when violence is happening. Just have the cops report when they decide to start beating and shooting innocent civilians. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to let folks know when their partner decided to kill someone innocent or beat some faces in. After all, their duty is…

I would say this is a 5-year-old's understanding of the police, if not for the fact that 5 year olds (at least boys) typically like anything related to the police.

You must be white.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#193

Post by 082349872349872 »

nimbius wrote: post #22
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #9

I get the sense that most HN commenters are against having police surveil this kind of event in the U.S. Could someone share the reasons for this strong opposition? Personally, I can imagine valid reasons for and against conducting such surveillance. But given how many people feel otherwise, I wonder if I'm missing something.

i could argue dataminr is just a fun way for the government to sidestep the fourth amendment but there are toilet paper brands with more resilience than the fourth amendment these days. The reason you do not surveil protestors is because it encourages the government to intervene and acts as an engine for parallel construction. some US cities actually profit from incarceration, and the opportunity to fill a jail cell…

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf says that for CONUS (domestic) Civil Disturbance, US military doctrine is/was to operate with limited intelligence:

B-34. Strict limits are placed on collecting information related to a civil disturbance in order to protect the civil rights of people and organizations not affiliated with the DOD. Civil disturbance plans and materials must not include lists of groups or people not affiliated with the DOD. Information on civilians and civilian organizations can be collected only with specific authorization from the Secretary or the Under Secretary of the Army. ...

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#194

Post by textgel »

gophicer wrote: post #192
pnako wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say this is a 5-year-old's understanding of the police, if not for the fact that 5 year olds (at least boys) typically like anything related to the police.

You must be white.

Does anyone know mechanically what this^ is? The account has sat dormant for 2 years after making 2 comments in 2018 and after 2 years of silence it spits out this. Is it part of some sort of farmed bot network? Or is it an old account that got cracked and used by spammers?

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#195

Post by cwhiz »

toofy wrote: post #155
cwhiz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is a private platform. You have no free speech rights on Twitter. You have no rights at all, other than the Terms of Service. The Bill of Rights protects you from the government. Twitter is not the government.

We can’t pretend this discussion isn’t directly rooted in government overreach, the government is using the data.

The government can’t get this data unless you make it public. You don’t have a right to privacy on Twitter or in any public space. I could personally scrape this same data from Twitter.

These arguments have already been decided. Wanting something to be true doesn’t make it true. If you want to further restrict the government you’ll need to petition for new laws.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#196

Post by thinkingemote »

Answering these questions are difficult because the protests were against the police, and any admission of nuance lessens the passion against injustice. With less emotional investment comes less participation.

Questions:

Were these protests legal or during coronavirus effectively temporarily illegal?

Another question is, given a police precinct building was evacuated and set on fire during a protest, should those attending the protest expect to no surveillance. Or only if violence happens?

In the UK there are stronger hate speech laws. Most people in the UK would want the police to be surveiling the far right during their arguably less violent counter protests. Should they not be wanting this?

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#197

Post by throwaway0a5e »

darawk wrote: post #58
rapind wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think deeply about what you're proposing.

I am thinking about it. Think about what you are proposing. Do you really want to take the position that the government cannot monitor any group until it commits a crime?

>Do you really want to take the position that the government cannot monitor any group until it commits a crime?

Yes. That's better than the alternative. So many things can be construed as criminal that I don't think it's an impediment to the investigation of actual criminal in practice. If anything stops police from wasting our money surviving groups that are not actually threats to anything but the government wants under surveillance for political/ideological reasons.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#198

Post by sitkack »

textgel wrote: post #194
gophicer wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be white.

Does anyone know mechanically what this^ is? The account has sat dormant for 2 years after making 2 comments in 2018 and after 2 years of silence it spits out this. Is it part of some sort of farmed bot network? Or is it an old account that got cracked and used by spammers?

It is rude to talk about someone in the 3rd person directly in front of them.

These topics bring out a lot of emotion in people, coupled with regular HN passive aggressive snark volleyed back and forth, of which your comment fits.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#199

Post by sitkack »

ashtonkem wrote: post #167
squeaky-clean wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The posts are public and the police cannot go after anyone for simply engaging in protected speech, "police SHOULD NOT go after anyone for simply engaging in protected speech". FTFY They can do lots of things they should not. They should not run cars into protesters. They should not push over old men who are not causing trouble. They should not shoot unarmed people in the back who are running away. They should not…

> They should not kill a black man ... over a false counterfeit bill complaint. They shouldn’t kill even for legitimate counterfeit bill complaints. Police should use the absolute minimum force required to both apprehend suspects (as limited by relevant law) and is required by public safety; not one ounce more. If someone is accused of committing a crime, it’s up to the courts and the jury to determine if they’re gui…

Very much related to your last statement.

Why Some Cops Think They're The Punisher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM7z7pDmEC4

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#200

Post by unreal37 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #196

Answering these questions are difficult because the protests were against the police, and any admission of nuance lessens the passion against injustice. With less emotional investment comes less participation. Questions: Were these protests legal or during coronavirus effectively temporarily illegal? Another question is, given a police precinct building was evacuated and set on fire during a protest, should those att…

"In the UK there are stronger hate speech laws."

The UK is an odd place, legally. Stronger laws against free speech yet looser laws around freedom of the press to do normally illegal things. It's a surveillance state with cameras on every street corner, yet a big advocate for protecting private data online.

A nation of paradoxes.

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