Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API • Hacker News Board

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#41

Post by nightski » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #11

save_ferris wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There's no reason that this data shouldn't be mandated to be aggregated and researched, other than to continue propagating a culture of secrecy. From the FBI's Use-of-Force data collection site[0]: > Is it mandatory for law enforcement agencies to contribute to this data collection? > The FBI has no lega…

I completely agree with this. Our national debate would be so much better if we had better data. Of course, some people aren't going to be persuaded by data and will probably try to condemn/intimidate/impugn-the-motives-of etc anyone who tries to talk about the data, but it would at least help good-faith people have a more productive debate.

I'm not against collecting data. But one problem with mixing data collection and politics is that just by selecting which data to collect and which data to not collect you are implicitly crafting a narrative. It's very subjective, and the data collected will be based on the agenda of the politics at hand. There is no such thing as pure unbiased data collection.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#42

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:18 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #11

save_ferris wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There's no reason that this data shouldn't be mandated to be aggregated and researched, other than to continue propagating a culture of secrecy. From the FBI's Use-of-Force data collection site[0]: > Is it mandatory for law enforcement agencies to contribute to this data collection? > The FBI has no lega…

I completely agree with this. Our national debate would be so much better if we had better data. Of course, some people aren't going to be persuaded by data and will probably try to condemn/intimidate/impugn-the-motives-of etc anyone who tries to talk about the data, but it would at least help good-faith people have a more productive debate.

[deleted]

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#43

Post by dx87 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #37

dddeeerrr9999 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They funnel poor people into prison camps Its worse than that. A vast proportion of non-white crime is manufactured by cops and the media to scare whites into bringing back slavery in all but name. Black neighborhoods are actually the safest places in America if racist cops would stop harassing innocent citizens just because they are PoC. Black Lives Matter!

So you think that the "vast proportion" of the non-white shootings we see in inner cities are manufactured by the media and police? Do you mean they make them up? I'm really not following here.

I'm pretty sure their comment is a parody of the parent comment that makes a lot of outrageous claims with no evidence, followed by a slogan you can chant at protests.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#44

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

vxNsr wrote: post #34

heavyset_go wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

So are you against all government unions? What about quasi-gov orgs like SEC? Or teachers? Just trying to understand where you fall on the “unions for me but not thee” scale

The one whose members consist of individuals with the ability to detain, assault and murder you, often with impunity via the thin veneer of "I was in fear for my life".

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#45

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

Latty wrote: post #24

throwaway894345 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with this. Our national debate would be so much better if we had better data. Of course, some people aren't going to be persuaded by data and will probably try to condemn/intimidate/impugn-the-motives-of etc anyone who tries to talk about the data, but it would at least help good-faith people have a more productive debate.

A notable example is the way that gun violence data has been continuously and specifically suppressed by those who oppose gun control in the US (e.g: the Dickey Amendment, which had an extreme chilling effect on the CDC studying gun violence). Unfortunately, it is common for those with power to see the data as a stick they can be beaten with rather than as a tool to do better. Of course, an example of the negative po…

I don’t see how this comment relates to my post or the broader conversation at all. This seems highly off-topic.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#46

Post by dlp211 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

vxNsr wrote: post #34

heavyset_go wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

So are you against all government unions? What about quasi-gov orgs like SEC? Or teachers? Just trying to understand where you fall on the “unions for me but not thee” scale

When the SEC and teachers are capable of using the authority of the State to take my life with qualified immunity for civil rights violations all while abusing overtime and other overpayment techniques and their unions go to bat for them, I will call for an end to their unions.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#47

Post by Latty » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #38

Latty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You complain about being downvoted, but your entire post is just calling the post "obviously and overt nonsense" and claiming it is a lie, without making any attempt to explain why. Not exactly a helpful post.

For the individual to make a claim that: "They are a force which exists to terrorize working class people in order to force them to work for minimum wage. They are an investment by the ruling class which allows them to maintain their profits on marginalized workers." Is just over the top absurdist. It's easily debunked by asking someone making above minimal wage "are you being forced to work by the police?" Will they…

I'm not saying I agree with the argument necessarily, but your counter-argument here is obviously flawed: oppressed peoples can't speak their mind freely, and may not have the information to be able to understand their situation fully. To claim that just because you ask someone "are you being oppressed" and they say "no", that they are therefore not being oppressed seems naive at best.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#48

Post by jstanley » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

vxNsr wrote: post #34

heavyset_go wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

So are you against all government unions? What about quasi-gov orgs like SEC? Or teachers? Just trying to understand where you fall on the “unions for me but not thee” scale

If you accept that a labour union represents collective bargaining of labour against capital, and you accept that government workers do not need to negotiate with capital, then you must conclude that government employees don't need to be unionised.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#49

Post by santoshalper » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

vxNsr wrote: post #34

heavyset_go wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

So are you against all government unions? What about quasi-gov orgs like SEC? Or teachers? Just trying to understand where you fall on the “unions for me but not thee” scale

I am not op, and I don't get the sense that you are asking the question in good faith based on the snark, but will give you my thought:

Our need for accountability and oversight over jobs that involve the ability to use deadly force outweighs their need for collective bargaining power. The greater good, at least presently, is served by being able to scrutinize police conduct with less interference.

I don't think police unions created this problem, but I think they are helping perpetuate it.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#50

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #10

save_ferris wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There's no reason that this data shouldn't be mandated to be aggregated and researched, other than to continue propagating a culture of secrecy. From the FBI's Use-of-Force data collection site[0]: > Is it mandatory for law enforcement agencies to contribute to this data collection? > The FBI has no lega…

It is an important concept of federalism to have that separation of authority between State and Federal. Besides given the federal government's track record of transparency do you really think if they had authority over local PDs they'd make all of that data available and open? Update: Just to make clear I don't disagree that more data is good and that we should work to make all crime and police data available, but I…

"Oversight of data" != absolute authority

And when certain states broke off from the union and for a century continued to oppress the civil liberties of a race, the feds stepped in.

There is evidence of widespread abuse of police power and lack of accountability. There could be a Constitutional argument made about equal protection regarding a federal mandate on police oversight.