One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#31

Post by markus_zhang » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on.

In the less developed areas of China the so called "Cheng Guan Wu Ju Tou" (The five masters of the town, usually includes the party secretary, the town mayor, vice mayors and maybe a couple of other important officials e.g. the head of the finance bureau) holds a lot of power over the general populace. Their family members also hold other important positions and they have been living in the same areas for maybe centuries.

Historically the central government had to rely on these local masters but nowadays it's getting the upper hand and a lot of these things are being reported publicly. It's kind of difficult to do the same thing (as in the BBC report) nowadays as electronic records are everywhere.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#32

Post by alasdair_ » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #19

airstrike wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Brazil, you're tested on 10+ subjects, ~half of which are open questions and the other half are multiple choice, plus an essay. Which subject goes in each of those categories depends on the major you're applying for, so you have to decide what you'll want to study in university at age ~17 (or prior to that, really, when you're 15 in High School so you can focus your studies on the harder questions). For instance,…

> Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Sounds absolutely brutal. That said, I was caught with the quoted paragraph. Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? As far as I see, all that should be considered in university admissions is indeed your test scores.

Something similar applies to the UK, at least when I went to university there. Almost everything comes down to exam results on a particular day with (essentially) four years of prep work leading up to that day.

Each university publishes the grades they will accept at a minimum for each major so you essentially choose your major at 17, or really 15 as mentioned above, because you need certain subjects with an “A” result to enroll at the university.

At uni itself, almost all classes are mandatory for a given major with only one or two chances to take an elective. Failing a class at any point usually means either dropping out completely or being moved to a less prestigious major (e.g. “general science” instead of a CS degree).

It’s definitely stressful.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#33

Post by leafboi » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

bgee wrote: post #30

leafboi wrote: post #21

What's nuts about this how tons of people from all levels of government/society participated in this conspiracy. It says a lot about the general attitude of Chinese people. (I'm chinese, btw)

This is the reverse Chauvinism that I often see online; no I don't think this says "a lot" about the general attitude of Chinese people. I'm also Chinese.

Chauvinism has nothing to do with it. It's just raw objectivity.

Pride for any culture or race is a form of bias.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#34

Post by walshemj » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:23 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #22

distances wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Sounds absolutely brutal. That said, I was caught with the quoted paragraph. Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? As far as I see, all that should be considered in university admissions is indeed your test scores.

>Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? They certainly do at elite US schools. The logic is that there's no shortage of students who could handle the academic work but Harvard or even MIT aren't looking just to admit the students who did best on an exam. Added: The way it at least used to be done (and I assume this still applies at least somewhat) was that quantitative academic scores ar…

UNi's want to make sure you have the soft skills to complete the course as well as pure academics

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#35

Post by hakka-nyu-su » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

leafboi wrote: post #21

What's nuts about this how tons of people from all levels of government/society participated in this conspiracy. It says a lot about the general attitude of Chinese people. (I'm chinese, btw)

Speak for yourself, don't speak on behalf of 1 billion.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#36

Post by viklove » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

Falloodude wrote: post #4

notwhereyouare wrote: post #3

I'm curious as to how these tests compare to the US SAT. You can take the SAT multiple times and submit your best attempt. In this story, the test seems one and done. You get 1 attempt and you either get in, or you don't. Also reminds me of the story from India like 1 or 2 years ago where a test had faulty answers and people thought they didn't get into university because of that

This test is absolutely brutal compared to the SAT. Imagine if US students were subjected to three days of testing, eight hours each day, that included all the SAT II subjects plus regular SAT subject matter. Oh, and throw in a whole section on Middle English, too.

Sounds like AP testing, which is required for most competitive institutions.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#37

Post by zozin » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the damage, and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme. This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam.

How do these people live with themselves, especially the daughter of the CCP official who assumed the stolen identity? I’m sure financial criminals justify their behavior by telling themselves that in the end corporations suffer the cost of the theft, but in this case a single individual was forced to bear the brunt of this fraud for the rest of her life considering how important and life altering a good exam score is in China.

It boggles the mind that people can live with themselves and can carry on living with such guilt. Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t...

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#38

Post by knolax » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

leafboi wrote: post #33

bgee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reverse Chauvinism that I often see online; no I don't think this says "a lot" about the general attitude of Chinese people. I'm also Chinese.

Chauvinism has nothing to do with it. It's just raw objectivity. Pride for any culture or race is a form of bias.

Nobody is being prideful, your logic is shoddy. Your hypothesis and the null hypothesis both lead to the same observation. To disprove the null you have to actually observe non-Chinese not cheating. Given that half the comments here are people complaining about something similar happening in their own countries, the evidence points towards the null hypothesis.

(I'm an albino black Jew from Mars)

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#39

Post by walshemj » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #32

distances wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Sounds absolutely brutal. That said, I was caught with the quoted paragraph. Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? As far as I see, all that should be considered in university admissions is indeed your test scores.

Something similar applies to the UK, at least when I went to university there. Almost everything comes down to exam results on a particular day with (essentially) four years of prep work leading up to that day. Each university publishes the grades they will accept at a minimum for each major so you essentially choose your major at 17, or really 15 as mentioned above, because you need certain subjects with an “A” resu…

For non UK readers different uni's have different requirements Oxbridge might want AAB when a former Poly Might accepted BCC.

Over the last generation there has been massive grade inflation back when I left school getting 3A's where very rare

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#40

Post by bgee » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

leafboi wrote: post #33

bgee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reverse Chauvinism that I often see online; no I don't think this says "a lot" about the general attitude of Chinese people. I'm also Chinese.

Chauvinism has nothing to do with it. It's just raw objectivity. Pride for any culture or race is a form of bias.

Discrimination against any culture or race is also a form or bias.

"Raw objectivity" would be this instance says a lot about the common nature of human beings, the consequences of lack of accountability and oversight etc.

Drawing conclusion on Chinese people requires either strong empirical evidence, or prejudice.