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U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#381

Post by TigeriusKirk »

ISL wrote: post #238
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

Political parties have very intentionally created the deep divides in the electorate. It's not something that just happened, it was something that was made to occur for the benefit of the politicians.

So I'm still putting the blame right on them.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#382

Post by btilly »

lucasgonze wrote: post #258
btilly wrote: post #194

Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law. To hold otherwise would be to elevate the most brazen and longstanding injustices over the law, both rewarding wrong and failing those in the right. I disagree with this reasoning. As a counterexample I point you to squatters rights. If I live on your land long and openly enough, my unlawful act will confer ownership of…

You're thinking of laches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laches_(equity) "Laches refers to a lack of diligence and activity in making a legal claim, or moving forward with legal enforcement of a right, particularly in regard to equity" It doesn't apply because nobody is claiming tribal groups failed to protect their interests. They haven't just been blowing off and watching TV all this time.

I am not saying that this is a legal argument for how this case should have been resolved.

I'm saying that this is a legal argument against the specific reasoning within the decision. That reasoning being, Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law. And yet here is a well-established example where an unlawful act, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, does become enough to amend the law.

I picked you to respond to because of the several people pointing out in one way or another that squatters rights (which, incidentally, has its own doctrines separate from latches) does not actually apply as a way to resolve this case.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#383

Post by fzzzy »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #257
bhupy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This not accurate. Congress failing to act due to deadlock does not indicate that either party agrees that no change ought to be made, only that congress couldn’t come to an agreement about how it should be made. That is actually literally what it means. The way the Union is set up, there is a certain amount of consensus necessary to pass legislation over 50 States across 300+ million people. If there is a deadlock…

This is by far one of the pieces a lot of people seem to miss. The system was set up for gridlock in hopes that it will temper some of the more dangerous tendencies of powerful and ambitious men.

Thanks for this bit of insight. It really explains a lot, and it actually makes sense to me now.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#384

Post by brandmeyer »

ISL wrote: post #238
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

> The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchment.

Unfortunately, that just isn't so. The evidence of the last three decades has been that every time the Democrats compromised a little, the Republicans just moved further to the right and re-entrenched themselves.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#385

Post by jki275 »

busterarm wrote: post #265
ISL wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

Except this is demonstrably untrue. The 115th (2017-2018)[1] Congress had both a Republican House and Senate and it got extremely little done. Our Congress is completely ineffective. [1]:Fixed.

Calling it a Republican House and Senate doesn't really do justice to the entire argument.

Yes, Congress is ineffective -- I think that's almost become an axiom at this point.

But it is often ineffective because of the rules it has adopted itself. The filibuster was removed for federal justices, and guess what? I think it's nearly 200 justices confirmed in the last three years, and while I don't remember the exact number during previous congresses I believe it's significantly higher.

As already noted, the filibuster is the root of a lot of this, but should the filibuster go away? McConnell famously told Reid he was going to pay for removing it, and he's made good on that promise, essentially transforming the entire federal judiciary with the power he was given. I view the filibuster as a check on the power of a tiny fractional majority -- should one party totally control everything that happens with a single vote majority? That essentially ignores the concerns of the rest. The filibuster at least forces some consensus building.

Better would be to have more than two parties. But how we could ever get there now I have no idea, the two parties in power have no intent of giving it up, and most people quite frankly are too stupid to even be bothered to vote, and those that do might be even more stupid in some ways. "Congress" is bad, "my congressperson" is the greatest ever because they get me money, and that seems to be the guiding principle for people voting these days. Maybe it always has been.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#386

Post by vkou »

ISL wrote: post #238
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

> The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement.

1. What sort of compromises with the modern Republican party do you expect the Democrats to have to make, that they haven't already been making?

2. And what will their reward for making them be? Another supreme court appointment unfilled until the president is a Republican? Another crappy compromise healthcare bill that maintains the status quo? Another decade or two of inaction on climate change?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#387

Post by coredog64 »

votepaunchy wrote: post #293
busterarm wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is demonstrably untrue. The 115th (2017-2018)[1] Congress had both a Republican House and Senate and it got extremely little done. Our Congress is completely ineffective. [1]:Fixed.

Without eliminating the filibuster the Senate can only pass bills with a simple majority by the extremely limited reconciliation process.

The filibuster doesn’t need to be eliminated. It can serve it’s purpose if we hold to the original implementation: Make members read the phone book on the floor on Sunday morning at 2am instead of requiring 60 votes to end debate.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#388

Post by ncallaway »

staplor wrote: post #352
toyg wrote: post #134

It's so weird how sentences so significant are often "protecting" the rights of terrible, terrible people: > McGirt, 71, has served more than two decades in prison after being convicted [...] of rape, lewd molestation and forcible sodomy of a 4-year-old girl. McGirt [...] did not contest his guilt in the case I'd be interested in learning who was involved in McGirt's proceedings and why. Did they mean to actually get…

You should look into Ernesto Miranda. He did horrible things but the Supreme Court said that he incriminated himself without knowing his rights. Because of this, his conviction was overturned and now cops have to read ‘Miranda’ rights to everyone they arrest.

> and now cops have to read ‘Miranda’ rights to everyone they arrest.

This is a common misconception, but the requirement is not quite that broad. The police are not obligated to read you your miranda rights immediately upon request—it's possible that they might not at any point read you your miranda rights.

What they cannot do is begin to question or interrogate you if they do not read you those rights. Any questions they ask without having read you those rights are at risk of being thrown out in court. Police will usually interrogate people after an arrest, so will often read them their miranda rights. (Edit: I also found out that any spontaneous statements you make are also fair game, if they didn't ask a question or prompt the statement)

But, it's not an obligation for every arrest. If you are arrested the police might not read you your miranda rights, and your rights probably haven't been violated if they don't question you.

If you are ever arrested, and interrogated, DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE BEFORE YOU CONSULT YOUR LAWYER. Never, ever, talk to the police without speaking with a lawyer first. Here's an excellent video that explains the reasons why better than I can. I highly recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&t=4s

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#389

Post by dantheman »

busterarm wrote: post #265
ISL wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

Except this is demonstrably untrue. The 115th (2017-2018)[1] Congress had both a Republican House and Senate and it got extremely little done. Our Congress is completely ineffective. [1]:Fixed.

Congress should be ineffective the problem is the scope of their activity has grown so much... The US shouldn't have a strong federal government it was supposed to be executing enumerated powers, and granted those powers through amendments. We've given up on constitutional authority a long time ago - there's a reason prohibition required an amendment and the war on drugs didn't.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#390

Post by triceratops »

paulmd wrote: post #373
SubiculumCode wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be that the 17th Amendment changing the appointment of Senators to a popular vote from elections by state legislators was a mistake, as "anti-democratic" as that may sound, it may be a good principal in a Republic. The house weighs the popular opinion, the Senate, the will of States.

the senate itself existing was a mistake. It only is fair in the context of some kind of relative equality of states, letting low-population states grind policy to a halt is inherently antidemocratic. (by design! the point was to give smaller states a say and that itself is the problem, it is a bad idea to let a minority be able to grind all action to a halt. You say "but what if they do something I don't like" and t…

It was a necessary compromise to get 3/4 of the first thirteen states to ratify the constitution. I'm not saying it's great now, just pointing out why it exists.
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