Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 184 posts

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#11

Post by elliekelly »

amluto wrote: post #8
topspin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has evolved a similar rigging for our privileged. We supply various obscure sports accolades that can be purchased for the children of wealthy families to obtain admission to our leading universities. Unfortunately our schemes have also been exposed and a number of people are being prosecuted. So for the moment one must resort to investing in rather costly facility construction or similar expansion projects wh…

I’m not sure that a fraud committed against the universities that the universities did not know about counts as a rigged system. Or are you talking about something else?

While I’m not so sure all of the universities were as blissfully ignorant as they claim, what does it matter? The system was still rigged in favor of wealthier applicants with or without the schools’ knowledge and awareness of the scheme.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#13

Post by frandroid »

airstrike wrote: post #6
Falloodude wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This test is absolutely brutal compared to the SAT. Imagine if US students were subjected to three days of testing, eight hours each day, that included all the SAT II subjects plus regular SAT subject matter. Oh, and throw in a whole section on Middle English, too.

In Brazil, you're tested on 10+ subjects, ~half of which are open questions and the other half are multiple choice, plus an essay. Which subject goes in each of those categories depends on the major you're applying for, so you have to decide what you'll want to study in university at age ~17 (or prior to that, really, when you're 15 in High School so you can focus your studies on the harder questions). For instance,…

> Want to switch majors? Gotta drop out, take the exam again and restart your university life.

Damn.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#14

Post by topspin »

amluto wrote: post #8
topspin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has evolved a similar rigging for our privileged. We supply various obscure sports accolades that can be purchased for the children of wealthy families to obtain admission to our leading universities. Unfortunately our schemes have also been exposed and a number of people are being prosecuted. So for the moment one must resort to investing in rather costly facility construction or similar expansion projects wh…

I’m not sure that a fraud committed against the universities that the universities did not know about counts as a rigged system. Or are you talking about something else?

Universities carefully not knowing about these and future fraud techniques is key to developing replacement admission purchasing schemes.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#17

Post by magicsmoke »

viburnum wrote: post #9

The unstated assumption in this article is that only college graduates deserve to have a decent life.

Something I've heard from Chinese people online about the difference between the US and China is that in America, you could be a plumber/auto mechanic/skilled trades and still have a middle-income lifestyle and a decent amount of societal respect. In China, working with your hands puts you on the lower rungs in society, hence everyone wants to get into college.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#18

Post by HeavenFox »

notwhereyouare wrote: post #3

I'm curious as to how these tests compare to the US SAT. You can take the SAT multiple times and submit your best attempt. In this story, the test seems one and done. You get 1 attempt and you either get in, or you don't. Also reminds me of the story from India like 1 or 2 years ago where a test had faulty answers and people thought they didn't get into university because of that

These exams differ from SAT in three major ways.

First, they are offered once a year. Didn't do as well as you hope? Try again next year.

Second, the material is significantly harder. Take math as an example. The exam questions are a lot closer to AMC/AIME than to SAT. In fact, suppose language is not a problem, many Chinese middle schooler would do pretty well on SAT's math section. Also you are not allowed any calculator.

Finally, for the vast majority of students, the test score is literally the only factor deciding whether you get into college. Basically, you will provide an ordered list of preferences to colleges and majors, and the student with top score's request would be satisfied first, then the second, the third, etc.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#19

Post by distances »

airstrike wrote: post #6
Falloodude wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This test is absolutely brutal compared to the SAT. Imagine if US students were subjected to three days of testing, eight hours each day, that included all the SAT II subjects plus regular SAT subject matter. Oh, and throw in a whole section on Middle English, too.

In Brazil, you're tested on 10+ subjects, ~half of which are open questions and the other half are multiple choice, plus an essay. Which subject goes in each of those categories depends on the major you're applying for, so you have to decide what you'll want to study in university at age ~17 (or prior to that, really, when you're 15 in High School so you can focus your studies on the harder questions). For instance,…

> Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score.

Sounds absolutely brutal. That said, I was caught with the quoted paragraph. Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? As far as I see, all that should be considered in university admissions is indeed your test scores.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#20

Post by linuxftw »

Falloodude wrote: post #4
notwhereyouare wrote: post #3

I'm curious as to how these tests compare to the US SAT. You can take the SAT multiple times and submit your best attempt. In this story, the test seems one and done. You get 1 attempt and you either get in, or you don't. Also reminds me of the story from India like 1 or 2 years ago where a test had faulty answers and people thought they didn't get into university because of that

This test is absolutely brutal compared to the SAT. Imagine if US students were subjected to three days of testing, eight hours each day, that included all the SAT II subjects plus regular SAT subject matter. Oh, and throw in a whole section on Middle English, too.

Seems like a lot of gate keeping, especially the Middle English part.
Post reply on HN