U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#151

Post by Angostura » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #142

calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary. That isn't an invitation for the executive branch (or judiciary) to overreach. In theory congress could go years without passing a single law, and that would be fine. It would signal that the current laws are sufficient. (As an aside, congress has ceded much of it's lawmaking authority to federal agencies anyway -- so e…

> If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary.

... and therefore the promise is still in force and should be upheld.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#152

Post by elbigbad » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #109

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone with standing sues.

and has extremely deep pockets

Not necessarily the case. There are lit fees of course, and filing fees, discovery, etc. But once you get to the SCOTUS stage, assuming you're not retaining Gibson Dunn or Covington or someone's supreme court practice, there are many clinics with some star power that will do the case for free. Many top law schools have Supreme Court clinic and we sought out cases that we could bring to SCOTUS. We would have died to help take this case to SCOTUS, for example, completely free.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#153

Post by elliekelly » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #142

calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary. That isn't an invitation for the executive branch (or judiciary) to overreach. In theory congress could go years without passing a single law, and that would be fine. It would signal that the current laws are sufficient. (As an aside, congress has ceded much of it's lawmaking authority to federal agencies anyway -- so e…

And this is exactly what the court ruled - if Congress intended to withdraw from or change the agreement they’re well aware of how to make that happen. And they didn’t make it happen so they must not have intended to change anything.

I would assume (haven’t read the whole opinion yet) that nothing about this ruling now prohibits Congress from exercising their authority to take any further action.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#154

Post by Tiktaalik » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #18

Does anyone know the status of private land, not belonging to tribe members, now considered within the reservation? Can it be confiscated by the tribe?

I have no idea, but a policy what would make sense to me would be to respect existing private property, though layer a "right of first refusal" for the indigenous nation to buy it back if it comes up for sale.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#155

Post by tux1968 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #53

cm2187 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you even define a tribe citizen? Is there like an ID card? Is it a DNA test? Does Elizabeth Warren qualify?

The tribes have their own mechanisms for identifying citizens like any other jus sanguinis nationality. The specifics depend on the tribe in question.

So could a tribe welcome every single person who asks to become a tribesman? Does the government just accept whatever the tribe says? Would the government then be required to apply all the same rules and exclusions of law for such new members of the tribe?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#156

Post by war1025 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

> because of the massive failure that congress is

This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished.

They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness. In some ways we're probably fortunate that the other two branches have picked up the slack, as much as we (myself included) like to complain about it.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#157

Post by Angostura » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #59

blondie9x wrote: post #13

Honestly after all the Native Americans went through, give them the whole state at least. People in the United States speak and reflect often about the atrocities of slavery. We need to equally reflect on and remember the atrocities against Native Americans.

What do you mean "them"? You do realize that there were many different tribes who had very drastically different interactions with the US, right?

I believe the answer would be

> Native Americans.

Whether that encompasses multiple tribes or not, doesn't change that.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#158

Post by calvinmorrison » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #142

calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary. That isn't an invitation for the executive branch (or judiciary) to overreach. In theory congress could go years without passing a single law, and that would be fine. It would signal that the current laws are sufficient. (As an aside, congress has ceded much of it's lawmaking authority to federal agencies anyway -- so e…

A recent dissent by Justice Thomas is elucidating.

"Today’s decision must be recognized for what it is: an effort to avoid a politically controversial but legally correct decision. The Court could have made clear that the solution respondents seek must come from the Legislative Branch. Instead, the majority has decided to prolong [the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS)] initial overreach by providing a stopgap measure of its own. In doing so, it has given the green light for future political battles to be fought in this Court rather than where they rightfully belong—the political branches. Such timidity forsakes the Court’s duty to apply the law according to neutral principles, and the ripple effects of the majority’s error will be felt throughout our system of self-government."

.

This was his dissent on DACA. Agree or disagree with the program that allows undocumented immigrants to stay and go to school, I don't care. It's not legislative, it's not judicial, it was a program by DHS setup under the last administration. Now the court rules the current administration can't undo the program? It's bizzare.

Things like DACA _need_ to be written in stone to avoid forcing the supreme court to become the effective legislator instead of having congress pass a law that enacts it as an actual program.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#159

Post by draw_down » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #101

giantg2 wrote: post #73

So when are they going to get to all the other unlawful stuff the government does?

when someone - like you - starts working for it. You are going to start, right?

No, that's why GP used the word "they"

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#160

Post by chiefalchemist » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

antics wrote: post #130

Just a couple notes here from a person of tribal descent (I am Wasq'u, a tribe in the PNW), for those trying to make sense of it. This ruling, as I understand it, resolves a narrow technicality—but that technicality has potentially enormous implications. The Court has only decided that the federal [EDIT: state! sorry!] government has no prosecutorial jurisdiction against citizens of the so-called "Five Civilized Trib…

Does the nature of the crime in this case have any implications on the ongoing precedent?

It's bizarre that the headline could have read: Rape-related SC Decision Returns Land to Native American Tribe.