U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#111

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #59

blondie9x wrote: post #13

Honestly after all the Native Americans went through, give them the whole state at least. People in the United States speak and reflect often about the atrocities of slavery. We need to equally reflect on and remember the atrocities against Native Americans.

What do you mean "them"? You do realize that there were many different tribes who had very drastically different interactions with the US, right?

And in almost every corner of the continent.

http://www.emersonkent.com/map_archive/native_american_tribe...

Maybe counties would be a better unit to consider.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#112

Post by jolmg » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

mixologic wrote: post #79

As an aside.. whats up with that file photo Reuters is using? Is that somebody naked in front of the supreme court wearing just a fanny pack?

Zoom in. It's a skin-colored dress.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#113

Post by tyre » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

preommr wrote: post #85

> Conservative Justice Neil Gorsuch joined the court’s four liberals in the majority. The US supreme court is a special kind of circus. For the life of me, I can't remember any of the names of the justices on the Canadian supreme court. Its extremely uneventful, and even if there have been controversies, they were so minor or rare that I can't remember them. The US on the other hand... The partisanship is so blatant…

The United States has a different system of government from Canada so it's not surprising that there are differences.

Given the primacy of our Constitution and the Supreme Court's role in interpreting whether a law is consistent with our our Constitution, choosing justices is a rather existential question.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#114

Post by umvi » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

thex10 wrote: post #66

systemvoltage wrote: post #46

Why not everyone assimilate? It is no longer "United States" when we split states off for special treatment for minorities. These minorities will further regress and never get out of the poor living conditions. Reservations are one of the most impoverished regions in the US. We should then probably go back to Genghis Khan times and challenge the whole Eurasia, Persian inlands and a bunch of other areas around the wor…

> Why not everyone assimilate? Yes, exactly, why not the USians assimilate into the many Native nations they occupy? They've had literal centuries...

Native Americans had wars and conquered each other for millennia before white man came. It wasn't some unified utopia in the Americas like Pocahontas leads you to believe. It was a huge cycle of tribalism, conquering each other, and bloodshed.

So... because they were conquering each other first, a technologically superior entity isn't allowed to conquer them?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#115

Post by mytailorisrich » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #99

mytailorisrich wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not 'why', that's 'how'. I'm not American, so don't know the topic in details. I have found this online: " The main goals of Indian reservations were to bring Native Americans under U.S. government control, minimize conflict between Indians and settlers and encourage Native Americans to take on the ways of the white man. " [1] [1] https://www.history.com/topics/native-american-history/india...

It's both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Dancing_Rabbit_Creek > Lands (in what is now Oklahoma) west of the Mississippi River to be conveyed to the Choctaw Nation. Lands east of the Mississippi River to be ceded and removal to begin in 1831 and end in 1833.

A treaty is a tool, it's 'how' to achieve something, not 'why' achieve something.

The reasons are as per my previous comments, and also as a tool to displace native population (in effect ethnic cleansing) and to grab land, as is for example the case of the treaty you mention.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#116

Post by dharmab » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #87

abeppu wrote: post #57

> The ruling voided McGirt’s sentence of 1,000 years in prison but he could face a new trial in federal court rather than state court. Not changed by this ruling, but it strikes me as really odd that you can sentence someone to prison for that long, or that you would bother. Why not just say life in prison? If your state is 103 years old, saying anything about the next 1000 years seems ... lacking in credibility.

life in prison is usually reserved for capital crimes. But when someone acts so heinously, then they just tack on year after year. However, AFAIK, rape or even murder aren't federal crimes, unless the crime crossed state/tribal boundaries.

> However, AFAIK, rape or even murder aren't federal crimes, unless the crime crossed state/tribal boundaries.

That was at issue in the case; the plaintiff was convicted by the state and argued that the state didn't have jurisdiction.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#117

Post by pcbro141 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

blondie9x wrote: post #13

Honestly after all the Native Americans went through, give them the whole state at least. People in the United States speak and reflect often about the atrocities of slavery. We need to equally reflect on and remember the atrocities against Native Americans.

It's also disappointing how little has been done to close the racial wealth gap from the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. It seems the gap hasn't changed much since the 1950s and 1960s and I don't see how it gets better short of a massive reparations package and investment in building up distressed communities.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/todays-racial-wealth-gap...

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#118

Post by ryaan_anthony » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

asdf21 wrote: post #47

Dumb question... but can I still move to Tulsa?

you're right, that is a dumb question

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#119

Post by vkou » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

wwright wrote: post #7

newacct583 wrote: post #4

This is a terrible article, it just cites the facts of the decision, teases the implication (OMG half of OK!) and explains nothing. Here's a review article about the same case from a while back which does a better job: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/11/28/half-land-... The tl;dr is that, yes, indeed, half of Oklahoma is part of land reserved for the Creek in a 1833 treaty. And almost two centuries of sub…

If we are going to truly treat this 1833 treaty as legally valid, does that mean that one party is entitled to compensation for 187 years of damages? Or is it more likely that we will somehow hand-wave it away and just find a way to retroactively undo the treaty?

Court decisions in the US (As in any other country in the world) are made in the context of the current social climate.

The current American social climate is not ready, willing, or interested in meaningful reparations. I doubt the tribe will be successful in suing for any damages.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#120

Post by kube-system » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

akerro wrote: post #19

European here: what does it mean economically, geographically and for the local ecosystem?

Likely very little. There's about 20,000 people who report Native American as their ethnicity in Tulsa, and likely the number of tribal members is lower.