Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media • Hacker News Board

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#31

Post by modeless » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

alex_young wrote: post #13

Can you really be both a public figure and keep your identity hidden by way of asking? There’s a playbook for this. Look at Banksy for example. If you don’t want your identity out there it’s your job to protect it. Not the New York Times.

Banksy's identity is right on his Wikipedia page for anyone who really wants to know. I think NYT and other media are keeping him "anonymous" by way of asking. They could easily publish his name if they wanted. Unlike SSC, Banksy seems to hold similar political views to NYT, so they have no problem playing along.

The only truly anonymous public figure I'm aware of is Satoshi Nakamoto and I'm pretty sure that the only reason he stayed anonymous is that he died before he could be definitively found out.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#32

Post by mrkurt » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #16

mrkurt wrote: post #4

Watching people who hate cancel culture try to cancel the NYT is hilarious. Watching them try to cancel individual NYT writers is gross. All because Scott Alexander retroactively decided his last name is private information and threw a tantrum.

What's your last name? I think an extremely small fraction of the accounts here would want to tell people their full real life names.

My last name is easy to find. My first name is Kurt, I live in Chicago, I work on startups. I've published with my last name within the last decade.

Scott Alexander's last name is also easy to find. His first name is Scott, his middle name is Alexander, he's a psychiatrist, and he lives in Michigan. This is all information he publicized.

And he has also published under his last name, even on SSC, within the last decade.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#33

Post by MattGaiser » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

The problem is that the media has lost people’s trust that it is not going to get things badly wrong or dig up whatever it can on you in the interest of controversy.

If people don’t know if something will be a hit piece, they need to respond as if it is.

I’ve worked with some great and curious journalists. I’ve also known some who don’t care to understand the issues at hand. They just want to write about them.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#34

Post by nerfhammer » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #3

Not that the NYT has any business printing somebody's name who doesn't want it to be printed, but I kind of feel like he had been looking for an excuse to shut down the blog for a while - it had been a long time since any of his posts really felt inspired like they were even a year ago. This gives him an excuse to make a clean break.

I kind of doubt that level of Machiavellianism from him. If he didn't want to do it anymore he would just say so.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#35

Post by stinkytaco » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

wwright wrote: post #17

mediadude wrote: post #7

>Alexander, whose role has been to help explain Silicon Valley to itself, was taken up as a mascot and a martyr in a struggle against the Times, which, in the tweets of Srinivasan, Graham, and others, was enlisted as a proxy for all of the gatekeepers—the arbiters of what it is and is not O.K. to say, and who is allowed, by virtue of their identity, to say it. Oh, the irony! The same journalists who report primarily,…

Could you point me to an era of journalism where it wasn't largely used to condemn certain figures over their words or actions?

Largely used? A scan through my local paper, and frankly most of my experience, is that journalism is largely used to report the news. I'm not going to wade in on the moral debate here, but I count among the new stories in the first few pages today:

3 stories about a major storm that came through last night

1 story about changes to unemployment rules

1 story about a major conference being canceled due to travel restrictions

2 crime stories

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#36

Post by arwhatever » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #3

Not that the NYT has any business printing somebody's name who doesn't want it to be printed, but I kind of feel like he had been looking for an excuse to shut down the blog for a while - it had been a long time since any of his posts really felt inspired like they were even a year ago. This gives him an excuse to make a clean break.

I detected the same shift in blog content, but figured (or, assumed) it was due to caution given the current political and social climate, more than lack of inspiration.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#37

Post by atdrummond » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

Cenk wrote: post #14

atdrummond wrote: post #2

So the playbook is to denigrate SSC by conflating his (granted, self-imposed) deplatforming with Srinivasan and Lorenz’ Twitter spat. Clever, likely effective, if not ethically and logically dubious.

Taylor Lorenz is mentioned once in the article, in the 29th paragraph, as an example of “the heightened sensitivity on both sides” > At the end of last week, Srinivasan and the Times reporter Taylor Lorenz fell into their own public brawl; though it was not directly related to Alexander, it reflected the heightened sensitivity on both sides. Vice obtained leaked audio, from an invite-only app called Clubhouse, in whi…

I’m aware - I read the article shortly after it went up.

In a narrow reading of the article, I think this critique tracks. However, given the broader prominence of that particular digital debate and Lorenz’ unique success in centering the discussion online to this purported “SV war on media”, their Twitter situation exists as the girder for the broader arguments in the article.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#38

Post by NicolasGorden » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

mrkurt wrote: post #4

Watching people who hate cancel culture try to cancel the NYT is hilarious. Watching them try to cancel individual NYT writers is gross. All because Scott Alexander retroactively decided his last name is private information and threw a tantrum.

I feel motive is important.

Was there backlash because the NYT published an opinion some disagree with? Or was PPI going to be exposed that hurt a medical professional maintain his practice?

I think one carries a very real reason for backlash. The other, not so much.

Also, what was being requested? Did Scott make this personal and ask for someone to get fired? If he did, equating this with actions like that makes sense. If not, it makes no sense.

Last, your use of the word tantrum for an adult making rational decisions related to the well being of himself and his patients only highlights your own emotive state.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#39

Post by avsteele » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

Article fails to defend the NYT in any substantive way, and the writer makes obvious their biases with statements like:

S.S.C. supporters on Twitter were quick to identify some of the Times’ recent concessions to pseudonymous quotation—Virgil Texas, a co-host of the podcast “Chapo Trap House,” was mentioned, as were Banksy and a member of ISIS—as if these supposed inconsistencies were dispositive proof of the paper’s secret agenda, rather than an ad-hoc and perhaps clumsy application of a flexible policy

Obviously this isn't and either/or. The lumping together of all SSC supporters is another cheap rhetorical trick. In any case, no matter which of these views you hold, the examples show the policy could accommodate Scott's request for pseudonymity.

Note too the lack of any real investigation or original reporting here; the author hasn't bother to talk to Metz?

Additionally, it seems difficult to fathom that a professional journalist of Metz’s experience and standing would assure a subject, especially at the beginning of a process, that he planned to write a “mostly positive” story; although there often seems to be some confusion about this matter in Silicon Valley, journalism and public relations are distinct enterprises.

This is just silly. How about you ask Metz? The cheap shot at all of Silicon Valley tips the hand too.

This article is just more propaganda in the evolving war of words between SV and journalism.

Re: Slate Star Codex and Silicon Valley’s War Against the Media

#40

Post by whatshisface » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

mrkurt wrote: post #32

whatshisface wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your last name? I think an extremely small fraction of the accounts here would want to tell people their full real life names.

My last name is easy to find. My first name is Kurt, I live in Chicago, I work on startups. I've published with my last name within the last decade. Scott Alexander's last name is also easy to find. His first name is Scott, his middle name is Alexander, he's a psychiatrist, and he lives in Michigan. This is all information he publicized. And he has also published under his last name, even on SSC, within the last deca…

I'm confused, are you agreeing with Scott? Both of you have last names that are "easy to find," but neither of you are purposely making it easily available. You both believe that there is a difference between "technically can be found" and "is printed everywhere my pseudonym is." If I were to write your last name in this comment, I would be going against your implied wishes, where your implied wishes are visible because you didn't write it in your comment.