Live data from Hacker News

Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

oregonlive.com

291–300 of 580 posts

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to that is using google maps or Apple Maps or duck duck go or a phone book. If people don’t understand that a middleman adds cost as an adult, then that is an education issue.

"The solution is high-resistance individual actions to address a situation with no societal benefit created by a company with more money than you can even begin to visualize." This is the sort of thing one says to either feel very, very clever about themselves or because they don't want things fixed . Which is it?

I don’t consider using a browser or google maps or Apple Maps to search name and phone number of a restaurant to be high resistance.

If people want to give their money to middlemen because they are too lazy to call or use a search website, that is their problem. We don’t need laws around every single idiotic behavior people do, and if they find value in paying an app maker an extra $10, so be it. I’ll continue to do the common sense thing and spending 30 seconds calling them because I can’t afford $10 to door dash for what is a useless service to me.

How much money they may or may not have is irrelevant.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#292
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of anti-competitive business practices, such as offering delivery for restaurants without telling them. Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23216852

I don't see how that is anti-competitive. I buy my favorite sandwiches through these services because the deli doesn't offer delivery services. They are providing me with a service and i am paying for it higher prices and a delivery fee. Deli still gets the same amount of money if i walked in and bought it. Its like expedited passport services where you pay someone to go stand at the passport office line instead of d…

If that's the extent of what the delivery service does, that's fine.

When the delivery service makes its own website/phone number, pretending to be the restaurant and intercepting its normal business, or starts doing deliveries without notifying the restaurant (potentially hurting the reputation of the restaurant), that's where the issues emerge.

https://www.saddlebackbbq.com/how-google-doordash-grubhub-co...

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23194727

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/grubhub-pho...

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#293

IMO this is misguided. The reason that restaurants are struggling is because they're unable to provide the value they once did, but they're still bearing a lot of the costs that used to provide it. All of these restaurants are paying rent on their dining rooms, when they're only using the kitchens. The customer experience, paid for by waiter wages and dining room rent, is now being provided by the delivery companies.…

I disagree - large cuts to delivery services were hurting restaurants long before COVID, and the predatory practices of the likes of Grubhub and DoorDash have been well documented here on HN in the past.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#294
post #217
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO GET YOUR OWN FOOD. A gentle reminder that people with disabilities exist and they benefit from food delivery services.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/794278/disabled-populati... Let's take the first-order approximation that 15% of the population is disabled and cannot get their own food. A quick, but by no means, thorough search shows both government and private programs to help these people obtain nutritious food. We could delve into this and go down the rabbit hole of what % of that 15% cannot prepare food or even feed themsel…

There are 330,000,000 people in the USA. 1% of that is 3,300,000 people. Therefore, the Portland-Vancouver MSA (only 2.2 million people) does not exist for any nationwide consideration.

Congratulations.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#295
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restaurants have this option, and I frankly have no idea why they don't pass the entire cost of delivery onto the customer. I'm happy to pay a delivery fee, though not everyone will, but the restaurant can strike a balance -- they can choose to raise their prices in general, to fund some of the delivery cost from their direct-ordering and in-person traffic. That's what they're doing anyway, just not being explici…

Delivery apps and websites highlight and promote restaurants with "free" delivery. Anecdotally, people like feeling like they are getting a good deal. The "free delivery" that is included in food pricing is more enticing than cheaper food with a $9 delivery.

Maybe; as a gimmick. But as you become familiar with restaurants in the area instead of just trying them out for the first time, you'll start to develop affinities. Maybe not everyone, maybe not every time, but if the restaurants doing the free delivery thing are losing money on every sale, eventually this achieves an equilibrium (so long as the market is not being artificially pumped by capital injections).

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. So delivery apps pay restaurants 25% less for their food. Don't they also charge customers more for the food, even before they add on service fees, delivery fees, and a tip? At least this is what I've seen recently. I look at a restaurants menu, and it will have a dish for $9. When I try to order it, Postmates & Uber Eats say the same thing is $14 (though they both agree on the price). This isn't just one resta…

> So delivery apps pay restaurants 25% less for their food. No, delivery apps charge you extra and pretend it's part of the restaurant cost. If you can buy your burrito at the restaurant for $8, the delivery service is going to show you a price of $10 on the order screen (and add in their $4 delivery fee, etc).

This is only half true. Uber in particular has a loose rule that says any prices you display online have to match what's posted on Uber Eats. I say it's loose because restaurants just raise their prices on Uber Eats anyway and not post their full menu prices online.

Citation: my family runs a restaurant that has slightly higher prices on Uber Eats despite the rule against it. It wasn't Uber that set those prices though, it was us. It still doesn't fully offset the 30% haircut we're taking though.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#297

This is a regulatory response to Silicon Valley’s implementation of predatory pricing. Let me explain: Predatory pricing is defined as “the pricing of goods or services at such a low level that other suppliers cannot compete and are forced to leave the market.” For silicon valley startups like Doordash and Grubhub this is accomplished by acquiring customers at a significant loss in ways that may often seem idiotic. e…

> The End game is to be the dominant food ordering platform in any given town where you get to dictate rates like 25%. You fight back by calling your order in and having them deliver it or pick it up yourself. I do this 99%* of the time as I refuse to pay a web server $8+ order+delivery fee for a meal that costs the same. It's absurd to think that people are so lazy that they cant pick up a phone or walk a few blocks…

"You fight back by calling your order in" -- if they are offering free delivery through an app, all you are doing is paying inflated prices to subsidize their delivery customers. If they are not offering you an explicit called-in or picked-up discount, you're not really helping anyone except all those people using the app.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#298
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about lockdown laws. I'm talking about observing proper quarantine procedures. If you are leaving your house for any reason, you are not properly quarantining even if you aren't violating lockdown laws, and you are actively _part_ of the reason your state "has one of the highest new-cases-per-day number". I am under a proper, strict quarantine. > Your choice. You failed to plan, so you planned to fail…

If no-one left the house, there would be no food, water, or electricity. Your argument breaks down at this point. You are, apparently, a reasonably intelligent person capable of highly-structured thoughts. Survival in the world is not guaranteed, and it is your responsibility to work around hardships you encounter. Please refrain from the "victim" word, as this is just the hand of cards you were dealt. We all have a…

(replying here because in your flagged post you asked for lockdown laws that prevent you from going out to buy food)

In BC and probably most of Canada, you have to quarantine for 14 days when you enter the country. You are not allowed out farther than your front yard/balcony, and you need to sign a form before you enter claiming that you acknowledge this and have arranged all necessary plans in advance to allow you to get the food and medication that you'll need.

The penalty for violating this is $750,000 and/or six months in prison.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow your logic. I don't need these services badly at all. But since they exist, and are predatory, they "naturally" interpose themselves between the restaurants and their customers unless great effort is made by both the restaurants and all of their customers to avoid it. It's not a question of wanting or not wanting the services. Some of these companies are so nasty and predatory that they are very, very…

There isn't a single food delivery or ride hailing service in the world that is very very hard to avoid.

In the middle of a pandemic, that's simply not true.

Otherwise, sure, you just go get the food yourself in your ca--oh wait, ride hailing. In a taxi? On a bike? Within walking distance? But yes, just go to the restaurant, unless there's a global pandemic that requires many people to not leave their homes.

Re: Portland approves 10% cap on fees that food delivery apps can charge restaurants

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Doordash don't charge for an unsolicited service. They aren't charging the restaurant at all in this case. They're paying the restaurant's full price for food. Like anyone could. Then they charge the customer for an additional service actually rendered - the delivery. They charge this as a delivery fee and a markup that they can vary on more expensive items. This is pretty normal for a retail business to do.

The Grubhub UX makes a specific claim, though: "Restaurant X charges $10 for a burger, and we will deliver it for $5". When they're marking the item price up, that claim is false. Given these apps' SEO juice and ubiquity, users are left with the false impression that Restaurant X sells a pretty expensive burger.

Do they really specifically say 'Restaurant X charges $10 for a burger'? Or do they just say 'the burger costs $10'?

Like when you shop on Amazon - they say 'the TV is $x and our delivery fee is $y' - really the manufacturer charged them Nobody looses their mind at this.

Post reply on HN