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Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

nature.com

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Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#11

Post by aaron695 »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #2

My limited understanding is that the genomics community thinks the authors are full of it. Given that the lead author is Ioannidis, I'm sure that's the case.

Anthropologists just make shit up, because it's how you get published and it's hard to disprove and truth be told people like stories real or not.

These DNA tests are mathematically provable so it's much harder to make stuff up, this shouldn't be so much in the fakeish sciences like biology or worse, this should be more bounded. Where have you read this?

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#12

Post by bencollier49 »

dmos62 wrote: post #8

> Our analyses suggest strongly that a single contact event occurred in eastern Polynesia, before the settlement of Rapa Nui, between Polynesian individuals and a Native American group most closely related to the indigenous inhabitants of present-day Colombia.

"contact event"

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#13

Post by redis_mlc »

lsiebert wrote: post #3
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #2

My limited understanding is that the genomics community thinks the authors are full of it. Given that the lead author is Ioannidis, I'm sure that's the case.

Nature is peer reviewed right? Who in the genomics community is saying that this is BS?

Peer review just means some people read the paper, not that anything was replicated.

Peer review: the meth for educated people.

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#14

Post by kairumination0 »

bencollier49 wrote: post #12
dmos62 wrote: post #8

> Our analyses suggest strongly that a single contact event occurred in eastern Polynesia, before the settlement of Rapa Nui, between Polynesian individuals and a Native American group most closely related to the indigenous inhabitants of present-day Colombia.

"contact event"

About as understated as 2 faint lines crossing on graph paper lol

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#15

Post by chewz »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #7

I'd be highly unsurprised that Polynesians and pre-Columbus Americans met, it's about the same distance from the Marquesas to Hawaii as from Easter Island to Chile, and it's 1.5x further from the Marquesas to New Zealand. While the paper is about the admixture predating settlement of Rapanui, it's quite possible it was known of beforehand.

> it's about the same distance

Distance does not matter at sea so much as prevailing conditions (winds, current) and available marine technology..

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#17

Post by aritmo »

It is also possible that a fisherman from South America got stuck in ocean currents and went to Easter island instead. This is simpler than making it to South America and then back to Easter island. There are ocean currents in the SE Pacific that can take a boat from the shore into deep in the Pacific.

If there was an Easter Island seafarer that went from Easter island to South America and back, then they would have a very good standing in the community. His guests would leave a bigger genetic mark in the community.

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#18

Post by abrowne »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #7

I'd be highly unsurprised that Polynesians and pre-Columbus Americans met, it's about the same distance from the Marquesas to Hawaii as from Easter Island to Chile, and it's 1.5x further from the Marquesas to New Zealand. While the paper is about the admixture predating settlement of Rapanui, it's quite possible it was known of beforehand.

The author of Pathway of the Birds¹ thinks it was possible.

1: https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/title/pathway-of-the-birds-the-vo...

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#19

Post by sradman »

aritmo wrote: post #17

It is also possible that a fisherman from South America got stuck in ocean currents and went to Easter island instead. This is simpler than making it to South America and then back to Easter island. There are ocean currents in the SE Pacific that can take a boat from the shore into deep in the Pacific. If there was an Easter Island seafarer that went from Easter island to South America and back, then they would have…

The paper resolves the controversy with the Easter Island (Rapa Nui) population. After colonization, the population from Chile mixed with the population from Rapa Nui. This paper conclusively shows that a 1200 AD (i.e. pre-colonization) event occurred on one of the eastern Polynesian islands before Polynesians settled Easter Island. The "hub" island radiation starts in the natural east-to-west currents. The Rapa Nui admixture is from Chile but the pre-colonization admixture is from Columbia and it is found throughout eastern Polynesia along with the South American sweet potato.

It is not known whether Polynesians sailed to Columbia/Ecuador and back or if South American natives sailed to Polynesia. A fisherman blown off course doesn't fit with the spread of the sweet potato and gourds, but who knows. The there-and-back-again narrative fits the Polynesian practice of exploring upwind/up-current and allowing the wind/current to help you get back. I use the same safety technique when canoeing and diving.

Re: Native American gene flow into Polynesia predating Easter Island settlement

#20

Post by mtalantikite »

aritmo wrote: post #17

It is also possible that a fisherman from South America got stuck in ocean currents and went to Easter island instead. This is simpler than making it to South America and then back to Easter island. There are ocean currents in the SE Pacific that can take a boat from the shore into deep in the Pacific. If there was an Easter Island seafarer that went from Easter island to South America and back, then they would have…

This is similar to the Kon-Tiki theory that Thor Heyerdahl popularized, but has since been heavily criticized. Largely it implies that these people weren’t capable or skilled enough to make these voyages, that it happened by accident, and certainly has some racist undertones dismissing native Polynesian people’s knowledge and skills.

I spent some time as a teenager on a cultural exchange with a group of native Hawaiians and vividly remember being brought on some of their double hulled canoes and got to hear their master navigators explain a lot of their navigation techniques. It’s pretty mind blowing. I also remember a Hawaiian anthropologist talking about how a colleague in Central America had found some very old cave paintings depicting what seemed to be Haleakala.

It seems not at all surprising to me that ancient Polynesians were able to travel to the Americas.

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